Cherie Daly Episode #13: Lovely Chaos

             Finding her passion for art later in life Cherie jumps headlong into the intensity of colour and texture. She has found her intuition with acrylic paint that thrives on sensation and spontaneity. She allows her paintbrush free reign, with no end point in sight. Being an award-winning artist Cherie recognizes her expressive energy and how it invites the viewer to contemplate and begin their own creative journey. 

             How her work has an energetic engagement that pulls you in allowing you to discover the natural and persuasive narrative of colour and form purely expressed using chunky brushwork and emotional connection. Cherie has been very prolific over the last decade, producing many compositions that inspire and delight many observers who have come across her work at many exhibits and fairs in Southern Ontario, Canada.

Recently having her studio built for her, Cherie divides her time between the studio in Muskoka and Toronto, Canada. Admitting to being inspired by lines and colour combinations, Cherie aims to infuse joy as her inspirations continually push boundaries and drive others to channel their creative energy into a singular focus like abstraction.

To connect with Cherie Daly: https://www.cheriedaly.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Creatively Thinking Podcast. Join Carolyn Vitello as she uncovers the inspirations behind some incredibly creative minds that are orbiting our local communities. Hi, Sherry Daly. How are you? I am pretty good today.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Thank you, Carolyn.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

I am pleased to have you on the Creatively Thinking with Carolyn B podcast. You are an award-winning for having me. You are an award-winning artist from Toronto, Ontario, who likes to explore non-objective intuitive acrylic painting. Your artistic journey began in 2016. I like to ask all artists what led you to choose this creative path as a career choice? Was it through exploring what you can do with your hands, your emotional insights, or something else?

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Well, it really wasn't a career I had ever thought of. It was probably the last thing in the world I would have thought of pursuing. I never took art in high school. I kind of did a what I thought was a practical route and spent my career more in public service. I like to think that I could make a difference in the world, and I ended up going that way, that route rather than into business. So it wasn't until I was actually in my 60s or turning 60. So it was kind of a pivotal year for me, I guess. And I was trying to make some changes in my life, and I was seeing a nutritional coach, and she happened to be a bit like a life coach anyway. She asked me this question: if you died tomorrow, what would you have regret not having done? And although I felt pretty happy in what my choices had been, I said, Well, maybe art, maybe a little bit of art. And somehow that, you know, once you have an idea in you in your mind and you say it out loud, the universe sometimes answers. So a week or so later, I found out something about the Central Tech Adult Art Program. And because it was on my mind, I just made that decision to go forward. I was a little bit, you know, I just jumped off a cliff there. And it was a big change for me because I actually, after my career in government, I'd stayed home with my kids. So it was a chance for me to go back and do something for myself. I'd always enjoyed a little bit of art throughout my life, but that was kind of a big step. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Does sound like quite a big, quite a big jump.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Especially well, from doing it a little bit to doing it five days a week.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Yeah, that is that's just yeah, you just completely changed everything.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

So I think maybe that's what as you get older you have less, you have, you know, you're not worried about let's say and making an income. So that was part of it. And it's more about just what do you want to do and what's stopping you? Yeah. Nothing.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yeah. You are quite prolific with your abstract painting and smaller works. Is your creative practice a controlled activity, or do you work from memory or feeling? Is your practice methodical or more playful? Can you and can you switch and use both sort of modes?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

My creative practice is not really controlled or from memory, although I at times I've used photographs or uh yeah, memories of places to start. But I just try and reach more within myself, and the whole idea is to try and create more like a child. So to kind of empty your mind of judgment and just make quick decisions about what what color do I feel like responding to today? What is attracting my attention? What do I feel like? And a lot of times I'll as I think I mentioned, I'll just look around for ideas. Today I actually had a I had a bit of a start started painting with a little bit of I used another photo out of a magazine with a hole in it, and that kind of gave me a composition to start from, and I just used that as a starting off point. So a lot of other times I will just think, okay, I'm looking around what color really appeals to me today, or what on my wall has combinations that are speaking to me, and I try to just make decisions quickly and just get started.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

This be in the moment kind of thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah, it's not so much even about a feeling, although sometimes other times I'm working, I put on music and I'm kind of bopping around, and you just are letting your body move with the music and re-reacting to that. Sometimes I'm I try also to listen to podcasts, and so I'm listening to that, and I'm not really thinking about what I'm doing. I'm just kind of responding and okay, I mixed those two colors, I didn't like that. A lot of it is just making decisions about what you like and what you don't like, and then just and moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Yeah. Yeah, just going with what is in front of you and what's around you. While researching you, I saw that your creative practice is rooted in energetic engagement without overthinking and judgment. So that's kind of what we just talked about. How may I ask, did you find this so early in your artistic career? Because I think a lot of people struggle with that.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

Well, I guess a few things. I think as you partly when you're working on your own, you end up kind of in a struggle with yourself. And I think my myself and a lot of us, I guess, I'm not unique, grew up being overly critical. I just found that anytime I did that, it would just make my paintings worse. So as soon as my head got in the way, the the work got harder and worse. And anyway, so I've just really tried to work against that. Also, I I like to work large, and when you work large, you well, most people you can't really take a little brush and fill the whole canvas. So partly it's just starting with big glops of paint and bigger brushes and movement to just get that canvas full. So once you get moving, I think movement itself generates some kind of I don't know, feel-good hormone in your brain or something. And uh it makes it easier once once you're started. I also had a a teacher, Suzanne Metz, who's also an artist and has her work in galleries in Toronto, and she would begin each class just with a little exercise to help you loosen up, and then you could go work on a bigger painting or you could keep doing the exercise. And I guess I always found I didn't have too many ideas about what else I wanted to work on, and I found that if you kept doing the exercise, you'd always come up with something interesting. So I guess that led me to think that you know, wherever you start, if you just keep pushing it or you keep redoing it, you will probably be happy with the outcome. So I've tried not to fret about it, and some painters, abstract painters of the intuitive school, kind of start out with a another thing they do is just use a tool where their their own, where they're not really directing it too much. They're letting, you know, they use a very long paintbrush or their left hand, and they let the line kind of meander, and uh that just becomes more interesting than when you try and direct it too much yourself. So I think having a lot of classes is where I observed that, oh, when I'm not in control, things work out better. That and I also wanted to credit one of my very early teachers that I her name was Louise Andrew, and she just taught in my local rec center. And she never made anyone feel badly about their work. She was all she always found something good in it, and it wasn't necessarily that it was pretty, but there was something that she observed in it. So you became a little bit more observant that you know it doesn't have to look the way it's supposed to, but there's probably something in there, and it's often the thing that you didn't plan. So I think having having teachers and mentors or following other abstract artists who basically are on on the internet out there who all kind of work that way has um made that just the way that I work now.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

Yeah, that does sound so much better than how a lot of us are getting in our own way.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah, but but I think that is the trick is how to I'm not so good about just how to know how to get out of your way. Some people do meditation, some people do writing. As I say, I often will listen to something so that my brain's busy doing something else while I'm painting.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Yeah. So the energy is coming through you rather than you directing it, like you said.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Yeah. I believe it. I mean, it sounds a little bit uh weird, but it it seems to be the the way that I come to it.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Yeah, I think it I think it makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

You have described your journey as be beginning in pu public policy and then shifting to art in 2016. What caused you to make this enormous leap? Although I guess you already said that, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 12:05

Yeah, I think we did talk about that, but yeah. And then I also really, you know, my bio kind of says I went from one to the other, but I spent a lot of time in between as uh looking after my kids and being a volunteer. I think I learned more. I did an MBA at one time too, but I think I learned more being at home, volunteering and being a parent than than all the school I ever did. But I said I'd always dabbled in art classes. I'd even though it wasn't yeah, it wasn't something that my parents did, it wasn't something my family wasn't really artsy, but for some reason I liked drawing and I like trying to get a good likeness. And I was always very, as I say, critical. Like, no, that doesn't really look right, the eye isn't quite you know correct, all of that. Um, and then I took some watercolor painting. I I did enjoy life drawing quite a bit, actually. And then I think it's partly again for me. I didn't take this up as a uh younger person, but coming to that point in your life when you have less responsibility for your family duties and maybe a career, and you say, What do I really want my life to be for the next however many years? Or I just had the time to pursue something for myself rather than most of my time had been spent looking after other people or the household or whatever. So um partly it was that. I think a lot of women actually and of my kind of age, I've had a number of friends who are now practicing artists, photographers, potters, musicians, they've kind of gone back to, you know, they say to look back in your childhood and see what you really loved. And a lot of people have turned it into a career later in life. I think also going from being a student to actually trying to sell work or to practice being an artist, that is also just another kind of mind shift where a lot of that had to do with having some artists who were peers of mine who were going through the same decisions that I was at that point and kind of encouraging me. And then I think I have also been told anyway that I've inspired other people the same way because it takes a lot of energy, as you probably know, to be a practicing artist and showing your work and applying to it's not just making the work, there's so much other energy that goes into everything else. Yeah, and so that that took time, but also once I had a body of work, I just felt like okay, I guess I should try and sell this, which again is a whole other part of your mind than making the work.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Yeah, there's so many hats, so many hats you have to wear.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

I yes, exactly, and I do uh appreciate it. I had a friend, Carolyn Laidley Arn, and she was the one that kind of said, Well, you need to get a studio, you know, and you should go in this outdoor show. And so it's partly because of people like her that I did those things, and then one thing kind of led to another.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Yeah, it's nice to have friends to encourage you to, you know, just get your work out there.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

Well, I I used to just take classes. That was I like being surrounded by other people doing doing art and having another person kind of give me some feedback, but then making it on your own and you know, spending all those other hours promoting your work. It just takes you to a different different stage.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Yeah, it's a whole different sort of way of working, I guess, you know.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

It's where you put your the other side of your brain gets connected again.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Color in your work is essential. Is this what comes to you when you are working in your studio first? Or is it the feeling that motivates you? Well, we kind of already established that, to put the brush to canvas. Is it the message before the medium?

SPEAKER_00 17:02

I was gonna say if you talk to my friend David Jones, he would tell you my work wasn't always so colorful. Whenever he sees my work, he always tells me how he likes the direction I'm going in. And I think before I you know, I took a lot of courses where they talk about layering, and you have to have for acrylic painters, the layers help give you depth, and and I used to spend a lot of time just mixing my colors. I really thought that was important. But in the more recent years, I've my work now has more intensity and fluorescent colors, and along with the bold marks that I make, I I have been enjoying just how colors play off one another, and being able to play with them really. So, color is usually the first thing I think about. And I say I I used to just try, and one of my teachers just always said, you know, black, white, and one or two colors is all you really need, and and you've got like unlimited palette from that, and that's true. But I guess lately I I enjoy playing with a whole bunch of colors. I like to see what happens when you put one color over another. A lot of artists they know the names of all the paint colors they love, and they know which ones to mix to make other colors, but I seem to come at it every time just as exploring. I think maybe that's what kids do. I don't know. Um, or I'm a bit lazy, so I just like slapping things on and mushing them around and letting one dry and putting one over and scratching through and waiting for that aha moment. So sometimes it some times I do things very quickly and then I just let it be. I do also believe that your original marks are really quite quite lovely. So I don't really like just spreading paint all over the place without an intention, but I do a bit of both.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

Yeah, yeah, you like seeing what happens, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

I don't usually think of a title or what the meaning is until later.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Yeah, you like the exploring part.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

I do.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

That's good.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

So which means that and you know, a lot of them don't necessarily lead to finished paintings. Some of them might sit around for a while before they other ones I I can finish very quickly.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Usually one or the other.

SPEAKER_05 20:06

And we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

Yeah, you you tend to work with the larger canvases, right? But you have done the smaller ones. And is that what's what's that about? Is that just for having more range or or more options of your work?

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Well, I think partly because I only have so much storage space. So I've started working small again. And I also wanted to do some series that were based on a technique that um someone named Bibby Ginalot and Sosolito uses, and it was more of a technique where you're using collage and paint and many layers. So I did do recently a few, a couple of series with six or more. So I'm when I'm working on that many, I I don't do quite as large. I also find when I'm doing outdoor shows that's people like inexpensive work, and I don't do prints, but I will just frame small pieces. And there's another sort of technique or way of getting started that uh Louise Fletcher was teacher that started me with that, where you either paint a really large piece of paper or multiple pieces with sort of tape taped into smaller squares, and it it just loosens you up when you're not really trying to concentrate on painting each individual square. And then at the end you can uh decide, oh, I'm gonna crop it this way or that way. way and you can often get a number of small pieces that way on paper. So when I work on paper they they tend to end up being smaller. And more just so they can be affordable.

SPEAKER_03 22:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

Yeah that makes sense. Your paintings are captivating. Would you say you learned how to paint from your courses at Central Tech? You have said you continually take risks and do not see an endpoint in sight when you are painting. How do you know when your paintings are complete?

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Hmm well those are about five questions there. I think at Central Tech it was more about a variety of media so there it was more of an art program and I did ceramics and printmaking mixed media and life drawing. So I didn't do that much painting but it exposed me just to that where you're constantly trying something that you haven't done before and you're you have to be willing to try it and to be bad at it. So I think that's partly one of the things I learned. I also just found out that it was kind of neat being surrounded by other creative people and learning from them or just feeling that creativity. And I also found out that even though I didn't think I'd like ceramics and I was not sure that I'd like printmaking that I learned different techniques from both of them that you can use in other ways and and I still managed to enjoy just the process which I think is what I try and keep in my painting is just to not worry about what you end up with at the end, but to just go through a process that feels right. Use these techniques to you know keep yourself not too connected to the piece or to be able to stand back and look for you know is there balance is there value and these sorts of things at the end I think everyone does take risks when they're an artist because you you take you create something out of nothing and if you show it in front of other people you're you're risking you know people not being happy with it or whatever criticizing I think partly the process I go through when I'm not as I say I don't really start out with a plan and I'm hoping I end up with something that people will like but I also want to just enjoy the time making it so sometimes I just focus on the texture of the paint or the feel or just again when you're you're in the moment you you forget about oh what are people going to think and you just enjoy what you're making because my work is a little bit bold and a little bit bright it's it is a little bit difficult to find a market for some of those things. So but that's I guess that to me is part of the risk is a starting out without a plan and B creating something that feels good to me but may not be kind of the the general market out there. And I guess also the tendency it's really the tendency is to try and make a pretty painting and so sometimes I do find I do play it too safe. And then that probably isn't going to feel like my work when it's done. So I depend a lot on my energy when I paint as far as when I know if it's done or not. Partly it's when I run out of energy that's when I I kind of stop and I give it time to breathe and then either sometimes I tell other people to put it away for a week and come back to it because sometimes right at the end you're a little too close to it. So I'll often come back in a week later and go, oh I like that a lot better than I thought I did. Even if it's got still got some flaws because I I think when you're just finishing you realize oh it it doesn't have that balance or the values aren't you know the way they should be but if you come back in and it it's got some kind of spark then you you kind of know it's done I also do like not to overdo my paintings. So again I've I've left some mistakes in there because I know if I go back in and try and fix it it's just going to it's not gonna work out so well. That's exactly what I find.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

It might take I think other artists might be better at that they know how to just tweak it but that's something I'm still working on yeah I've seen a a number well I've actually had a few interviews with other artists that work big and with bright colors and yeah I don't I don't know I guess like you said it maybe each artist figures it out for themselves well when when is the right moment right to to say okay it's done.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

It's a tiring experience where do you see yourself creatively in 10 years time I think do you see yourself showing internationally had a a really busy year and did fairly well I was in two big shows and a and a lot of other galleries but at the end of that year I was burnt out a bit or it was just I think it was too much. So I've probably stepped back a little bit rather than aiming for the the international scene I'm still debating it. I do I've talked to other people who you know I think I have a son in New York so I keep thinking okay I could do the Brooklyn show or I could try anyways but it is an expensive undertaking. I think this year I'm I'm really I've been receiving a lot of sort of emails some of which you never know if they're legitimate or not but some opportunities that just are a little bit different and I'm trying some of those so I am going to send a couple of pieces down to LA for something called a pop-up show that's on at the same time as the the other art fair in LA so I'll see what happens there. I have had some work at the ADC Fine Art Gallery in Cincinnati a couple of times and I've also participated in I think it's the Women's United Art Show or they have a prize that they give out and they also have a magazine that goes around the world. So I'm I'm doing things like that. I'm not sure if I'm going to take on a a big art show probably in the US just due to the expense and the uh complexity of it but I think I'll just try some other I actually I'm gonna have a a piece of my work up at um two Bloor Street West in July but it'll be in digital form. So I'm as long as the work gets out there and I think the other thing is just I did have a a good year at the artist project this year and whenever you sell a big piece and people say it's made their lives better or they how much joy they get out of it one of the people who I met there came to the Riverdale art walk and told me how much they enjoyed it and she sent me pictures right away. So those are the things that make the making of the work you know makes you feel good afterwards. So I think I'll just keep pursuing sort of individual opportunities that come along and probably stay with the same outdoor art shows I've been doing I do have I am trying to connect with one gallery in Toronto as well. So I think those are the things I'll keep working on that and I I think I just like to give myself enough time to make some new work as well and it's hard to keep making work if you're also doing a lot of shows and then there's the selling part of it too and unfortunately a lot of there are a lot of scam artists out there so it's really hard sometimes just to f find out which of these you know offers are legitimate when you're receiving them yeah yeah that's that's very true you had your studio in Muskoka built for you recently you described the process as impatient uncomfortable and that you appreciate the self-focus and gift of time that this project has given you did anything else in your sort of post-COVID journey benefit your creative practice I guess what I was talking about there was just that prior to COVID I had worked mostly surrounded by other people I had a I don't think I had as much of a studio practice or regular practice on my own. And so just the time that COVID gave us to work on our own and not have to go to shows and also made some good I think I also learned how to do online classes which has been a bit of a benefit so I think just switching from process where you were counting on other people to tell you what your artwork whether it was good or not or whether you should do this or that to a process where I had to make those decisions for myself that was part of the benefit of COVID if there were many I think too in that it just slowed us all down and we had more time in nature I think I got into more of a regular practice where I could just walk out to my studio right now I'm in Toronto and I drive to my studio so I have to make that kind of effort to get out there but when I had one right near me I could just walk out the door and it would it would just become more of a regular daily activity. Now it's a little bit more of an effort to come it's not that far it's just the getting in the car. Yeah it's kind of far isn't it creating that you know I I do like having the separation from home I can make a mess and be on my own and just kind of be a different person maybe yeah yeah but I was gonna say I think just every show you do every interaction you have with people who come and want to talk about your work strengthens your understanding of yourself and your goals and what I bring to my art that is different from what others do. I think just when you have to talk about your work at an art show and when other people connect with that description as well as the work it's just kind of a real bonding feeling so I think uh I think just partly you work on your own and partly being out in at art shows and with other artists has just been a really a really fun uh fun thing for me. I've made a whole whole whole different group of friends from the ones that I had before I had an art career and that's been just really rewarding and no matter no matter where I go I went to a Frida Kahlo movie last night in my neighborhood and ran into two artist friends because of course they all wanted to go to that movie even though they don't live in my neighborhood so it seems no matter where I go I have some connections that I've made through this decision to be an artist. So that's really kind of cool. Supporting you in this journey part of it I do belong to this artist network group out of Leslie Grove gallery and and I really do credit that relationship or that organization with them helping me every step of the way to try new things and to get involved in bigger shows.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

So no I never would have done all this without connections and and mentors like that or friends you have said you look around and you see color combinations or some lines or marks and they give you ideas do you see visions of future works or are they preliminary sketches for your works that you will work on in the future or do they just motivate your creative engine?

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Motivate I I took a course in January February just uh it was called a sketchbook course with Jane Davies. A lot of times I take these courses again just to to help get me started to rejuvenate some of my you know ideas if I'm getting a bit stale but and I learned a few things about working with collage how she matches lines she had us just creating a bunch of new marks so that when we do our work it's not all the same thing. And so hopefully those sort pieces that I put up around me are just those kinds of marks that remind me what I can use in my other work. And hopefully it's translates somehow into that and I I mean her the first exercise we did with her was just called scribbling.

SPEAKER_05 39:07

And we'll be right back.

SPEAKER_00 39:16

And it's just it's kind of freeing to do those sorts of things. So a lot of the things around me you would consider them scribbling or yeah just trying to make different random shapes that you would you don't really know how they happened. I've got something beside me that was a jelly print that you put a piece of dental floss or string or something on you roll some paint over it and look at that you've got a mark anyway all these things kind of make me excited so I I think that's what these smaller pieces do is just get me excited about how beautiful lines can be and how random marks are so much more appealing than those that are thoughtfully placed on there. I also like simplicity so one of the other exercises we did was called blob and a line and I love those basically one or two blobs of paint and a skinny line meandering somewhere on the page and they can be just so perfect without any more messing around with them trying to fix them. So it's just a reminder not to hold too tightly to a plan or what you originally started out to do to stay flexible and watch for those beautiful things I mean I have a piece behind me and they also tell you not to try and you know if you're doing a second layer and you're you're trying you think one part is precious and you don't want to cover it up maybe you should think about that but I have a piece behind me that just has some pink dots on it in one little spot and I really want to keep those for some reason I just like the way they peek out from in behind. So um yeah I think it just reminds you that scribbling is yeah some form of the underlayer or the base layer or gets you loose to figure out where you're going right so I have to ask this are you really that comfortable giving your studio address on all social media you are in an enormously large city that has some dangers lurking around well I I never really think about that the studio is locked gotta keep the valuable safe Google Google Maps has my studio address because I don't know but anyway yeah my studio's 100 Sunrise Avenue it's in kind of an industrial area but we have one of the best bakeries around the corner so yeah if anybody wants to come right now I'm actually I'd invited people on my mailing list to drop in any Tuesday in July because I'm going to be here and uh so it's studio gallery 106A in 100 Sunrise Avenue between sort of O'Connor and Eglinton near Victoria Park. It is a joint joint with some other artists and there's another studio in the building with Rob Croxford and some other artists so yeah yeah and I can point out the bakery to you when you come yeah I guess your art has an energy that is pure so the dangers will not arrive.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

I hope so yeah just need to be mindful you know just in case be safe most people who are interested in art are not those kind of people that's good thank goodness for that right how did you discover acrylic how did you discover acrylic paint? Was your was was it your favorite paint uh when you were exploring paint? Did you explore other options at Central Tech or did you As they say, I can do gradually.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

And I think I started out with watercolor, partly because that was just the class that was offered at the time, or I actually spent a few years in California and the the time I had available, it happened to be watercolor classes. I also took some classes at Cedar Ridge in watercolor. So I guess I did that for quite a while. But at some point I decided that I think part of my the other part of my reason for having a career as an artist was that my husband and I didn't have the same taste in art, and I could never get him to agree to spend money. So I decided to make it myself. And I wanted a big piece of art for our front hallway, and I wanted it in red, so that it's really hard to do a large watercolor. And watercolor is not as intense a color, usually, you have to put it behind glass. So I think that was part of the reason I switched to acrylic. I wanted that acrylic lets you paint over it. If you don't like it, you can make much larger work and you don't have to put it under glass. It's more forgiving than watercolor. I think you have to be a little more thoughtful about your watercolors. Yeah, watercolor is a difficult medium. I do use oil pastels and I like them quite a bit. But um yeah, I'm I'm sure oil paint has its own appeal, but I haven't tried it. No, I said I probably wouldn't ask you if you were to pick a backup paint. What would you choose? There's some plan air groups here, and I used to do life drawing. So I think I do like just in my recent work with Jane Davies, she had just so many different drawing media. And I do find when I paint, I like to draw it either before or during, or but I often wreck my markers because my paint is still wet. So sometimes I think I would just do more drawing or use drawing materials more than uh another kind of paint. I'd I mean I have also used things like acrylic inks, or I think when I when I've traveled, I've used watercolor with not use them together, have them separate into the watercolor. I think that's maybe better for traveling or as well as dry media. That's the only difficulty. So I actually painted my I have painted two of my cottages from I was sitting out in a paddle boat because I find that I get more inspiration from life than from a photo. So I actually sat out on the water and painted my cottages with acrylic paint. So that was another test.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

One of them was fairly big. That does sound nice.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

A nice way to uh to just be painting, right? Just painting right outside. You indicated how your art has helped you while assisting a family member's mental health issue. This is very brave of you to admit this publicly, as many do not want to show vulnerability like this. Art, music, and movement truly are healers in many ways for most of us.

SPEAKER_00 48:53

I guess it's been a long journey if they are willing to begin. And yeah, I have always found that when I've reached out to people, most people have some kind of experience in their lives and were very empathetic. And it became a way that either I could offer support to other people or they could offer support to me. But if you keep it all hidden, nobody learns and nobody gets support. It's a lot of people suffer. It's also something a lot of artists do deal with as well. I just I just found sometimes, you know, I really did have to almost force myself to go to my art classes, and then once I was there for a couple of hours, I could have a bit of relief from whatever the the difficulties that I was facing the rest of my life, and I'm sure there's many other people with many difficulties that, as you say, come to either exercise or nature or art or something to give them a little bit of a reprieve. And um so I guess I have someone else in my studio who who likes to comment on sort of the state of the environment in the world and in her paintings, and I haven't really chosen to concentrate on, I'm also involved in my local nature stewarding, but I don't really comment on nature or on mental health, but I hope through my work to bring some joy and some pleasure to people and a sense of fun. So that's kind of my way of keeping things keeping things light, even though you may have struggles in your life at the time. Also, in a lot of the groups that I've participated in for mental health, they always do talk about how self-care is so important. And so many of us get start taking care of a person who needs support and we forget about ourselves. So that's always one of the things I've done for myself. Yeah, there's that oxygen mask uh symbol, right? Put the oxygen on yourself before you can put it on someone else. So whatever is it. Yeah, we need to take care of ourselves before we can take care of others. That can help. Yeah, what's more fun than letting loose, like a kid with a bunch of paint and tools? Like it's sort of like men going to Home Depot, right? Artists going into the art supply store, and uh yeah. So I'm looking around right now at all my tools. Many of them are not in great shape, but it's still fun to play with them. Yeah, it's like a candy store. I've got a little note here. I still feel very much like I'm learning and starting over all the time, I guess. So I've brought a book in today from one of the Austin Cleon, which is good about a series of books that are kind of inspirational to artists and his research. We have actually called art ten ways to create like a kid again. He said they don't call it art, they just go out and make stuff, and I try to do it that way as well. Just I don't feel that I have the answers, and every time I I make something, and if it if it's something I like, it you get some joy out of it. Making art helps you to find parts of yourself you didn't know about, and showing your work gives you more confidence. These are the reasons I would give someone who is not sure about whether to invest the time. So I've appreciated having this opportunity to talk to you a little bit about my creative processes, and thank you very much.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

Well, I think now I think I'm pretty much I think that's all I had. As I say, it brought a lot of it's just you're very welcome.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

Yeah, I was just gonna say we have reached the end of our question line for your podcast. So if you would like to add anything, now is your chance.

SPEAKER_00 54:17

And so this is one thing that I can keep for myself, and it has been rewarding and kind of exciting to get into the show and you just said it before I just said that, right? I never did anticipate or expect to become an artist. I didn't have that in my family, so just being able to call yourself an artist is very, very cool. I'm still probably not really believing it, right? A little bit of the imposter syndrome. I just make stuff and if people like it, that that's great. I s I do find it often a struggle and it's like yeah, I wouldn't necessarily say it's easy. Sometimes it comes easily, but a lot of times it's more like an argument with yourself on the canvas. So it's pretty much just you and you.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

Yeah, it's it's uh that's right, it's an interesting way of just living, right? Yeah, I love talking about art.

SPEAKER_00 55:56

That's why I say I feel like I know myself more because this whole thing about risk taking is really just about okay, here I am, I'm in front of this blank canvas, and what am I gonna do? And just every one of those decisions is just about putting yourself on the canvas somehow, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Um yeah, one of the first creating some of the first artists I talked to believing that the very same thing gonna work out somehow in in uh our interview a couple years ago. Yeah, yeah, the second argument with yourself.

SPEAKER_00 56:36

And I relate it a lot to the idea of just letting go in your own life and not trying to control things, and I'm really a control freak in my normal life, so yeah, it for me it's it's a constant battle. Um, but you know, that I I've learned from my art that when you do let go, beautiful things happen, but then you try and translate that into your life, and I'm probably less willing. Uh my kids all when I have one son in London, UK, and we were doing a trip to Ireland, and I had to have everything planned out, right? And he's like, You don't have to plan that much, right? You can just decide when you're there, and I'm like, No, I want to know. But then a lot of times it's the unplanned incidents or activities that are the most rewarding. So that yeah, that's kind of what I've learned by doing the art, but it's still something I have to keep hammering into my head.

SPEAKER_03 57:49

So that's why, yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:54

And there's no perfect painting, and if we were perfect it we wouldn't be interesting, I guess, either.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

Yeah, you can't plan everything.

SPEAKER_03 58:19

Well, you said you don't get all the joy of happy acts. Yeah, most yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:34

Yeah, so often also afterwards, people ask you, Well, how did you do it or whatever? And I'm looking at it, and sometimes you're just in another headspace when you're making the unperfect paintings, they're are just as exciting as a lot of the ones that we think may be perfect.

SPEAKER_01 58:51

So sometimes it's just the individuals that end up owning them, I would think.

SPEAKER_00 59:00

Yeah, I really one step, one step at a time.

SPEAKER_01 59:05

I guess yeah, I was just gonna mention that a little while ago, and then we got talking.

SPEAKER_00 59:10

Why do I paint like I do? It's been a process to get here. I'm reading something on my wall, trying not to have too many rules, try to trust my instinct freer than representational perfection.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

So luckily I wrote that to myself at some point. Yeah. Yeah, it's all in the process of figuring it out.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

Just little reminders for yourself to keep you on track on track. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:18

Well there was probably a lot of lines and energy and and a few too many colors, but it still seemed to be to be done. Yeah. Here he said notes. This was yeah, I I titled this podcast Lovely Chaos just because I painting I like to think of a lot of artwork as he may or may not be lovely chaos.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:44

It's it's just it may then be a bad that's how it is illusion sort of visualized and and sort of that's how I see it anyway. Because I I mean I'm not gonna say how did you come up with that name, but I guess in a way that you kind of thought something similar. Maybe yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:04

I put them up here on the wall, but then I don't usually look at them, but maybe, hopefully. Yeah. Thank you. Okay, thanks very much. That's good. Okay, bye, Carolyn. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:44

Join me next time as I go down another rabbit hole with another creative professional on their insights, their inspirations, and their ingenuity. Your mind is some somehow absorbing it. Whether you're aware of it or not. Well, I love talking about art, but we've we've done we've we've yeah, we've we've done a full hour, so and uh it was my pleasure discussing your creative practice with you. I hope to talk to you in the future to see where your practice has taken you.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

Alright, thank you, Sherry Daly. Okay, bye. Thank you.