Noe Kuremoto Episode #6: Decoding Ancient Wisdom Part 1

Growing up with Artists around her home in Japan Noe absorbed the artist lifestyle of gathering meaning, understanding the objects and relationships have a larger context. She learned early how to become an academic artist. How to use classic materials. She gained the education of Contextual Art at St Martin's College in the United Kingdom. Switching gears into motherhood she returned to basic mediums of earth, air, and fire she found in clay.

Listening to her personal cues and the gossip in the big cities Kuremoto heard the unease of the working class. Taking solace in her family, and her practice Noe took a leap out of her comfort zone, and started building a studio deep in a forest in Lithuania. Here she can gather her inspiration from the quiet.

Abandoning her culture over the years, Noe recognizes how important myths and stories are metaphorically to the here and now. She sees the sadness and desperation, weaving her perceptions into figurines that hold a symbolic meaning to everyone who sees them. Many of her sculptural pieces resonate on a deeper level, protecting us today, while they dance amongst the shadows from the ancient world.

Noe Kuremoto Podcast Credits:

Audio Links from https://freemusicarchive.org/
Podcast by Carolyn Botelho

Connect with Noe: https://www.noekuremoto.com/

Transcript

(0:04) Hey everyone, welcome back to the Creatively Thinking Podcast. (0:10) Join Carolyn Botelho as she uncovers the inspirations behind some incredibly creative minds that (0:16) are orbiting our local communities. (0:22) Okay, hello.(0:26) Hello, Noe Kuremoto. (0:30) So yeah, I found you on the Toronto Outdoor Art Exhibit a little while ago and I just (0:38) had to talk to you. (0:41) So yeah, I wanted to learn about your creative practice.(0:46) Noe Kuremoto is an artist whose work sits poised at the junction between modernity, (0:53) memory, and mythology, using ancient stories to simplify modern discontent into childlike (1:03) talismans or meaning. (1:06) Originally from Japan, currently living with her family in London, UK, while she builds (1:13) a studio in a National Park in Lithuania. (1:18) So yeah, let's just do a deep dive on your creative practice.(1:24) So how did becoming a sculptor artist as a career come about? (1:30) Was it loving what you can do with your hands, being connected with your emotional well-being, (1:36) or something else? (1:43) So I have to take you back to 1990s when I moved to London. (1:51) That's where I started my career as an artist, let's see, sculptor. (1:57) Right now I am known as ceramic artist, I guess, or some people call me ceramicist.(2:09) I started to study conceptual art at Central Saint Martins in 1990s. (2:17) That's where it all begins in Soho, buzzing, Vivienne Westwood is doing crazy catwalk, (2:25) and Troye Siami is presenting a bed, she's making a trouble at the Royal College of Art. (2:34) Damien Hirst, Sheep, you know, this landscape of conceptual art was something (2:42) so alive and it felt like it's urgent to act with this conceptually driven art.(2:54) This was not something that was familiar to me when I was in Japan. (3:01) I'm more classically, formally, academically trained fine art. (3:09) Now, perhaps I can take you back to my childhood.(3:13) I was born in Osaka, I grew up in Osaka too. (3:17) My father is still an artist, he was teaching a lot when I was little. (3:27) He's a professor of fine art and I grew up with a lot of artists, (3:36) printmakers, sculptors, photographers, musicians, poets.(3:44) That was a very soul-enriching environment for a child like me. (3:52) I often thought that's how all adult life is like. (3:58) Everyone's making music, drawing and smoking, reading a poetry to each other.(4:05) Turned out that around the primary school, as I went to school, I heard things like, (4:13) oh daddy's going to office. (4:15) I'm like, oh what's that? (4:17) Oh, you know, my dad's wear shoes and go to work. (4:22) Oh, oh, I guess my dad does that too.(4:25) And I saw my neighbor's dad coming back rather knackered and tired and (4:35) irritated after, you know, the Japanese father often work easily 12, 14 hours a day. (4:45) And I thought, wow, what a stranger. (4:48) Dad looks exhausted from life.(4:51) And my parents are just often listening to music, eating and friends are coming in the midweeks. (5:01) Drinking, drawing, dancing, you know, full of life in our family home. (5:11) So I always knew that I really don't want to be in the other side.(5:19) It looked like soulless life, you know, but then I also realized that was the majority of the world. (5:30) So this is the background of how I grew up with a family full of artists all the time. (5:40) With the contrast of Japanese economic bubble era, technology was thriving in Japan.(5:50) And money was never the issue. (5:54) Then the bubble busted. (5:57) A lot of people end up jobless, a lot of people couldn't pay a mortgage in the end.(6:03) Adults were stressed. (6:06) So it was a tension in Japan as I grew up. (6:13) And I had a able to steal my father's magazine, art magazine.(6:21) I started to become familiar with performance art. (6:25) What's going on in New York? (6:26) What's going on in London? (6:28) They look rather exciting and that's not something I could see immediately in Tokyo or Osaka. (6:37) And I started to dream about studying in Central Saint Martins in London.(6:44) So as I arrived, like I said, you know, Tracey Emin and Damien Hirst, Sarah Lucas, Marina Voronitz, they're all active and if anything, they look like a revolutionizing the landscape of fine art. (7:02) So I decided to abandon everything I knew, how to draw, how to paint, how to sculpt, all the academic fine art skill set that I had. (7:14) I think, number one, it looked outdated for casual fine art.(7:19) And probably number two, my professors at the Saint Martins didn't think very much of it. (7:26) You know, a girl who was the top of art school throughout her life in Japan, suddenly no one seemed to care how well I could draw or how skillful I was. (7:44) And that was a steep learning curve.(7:49) I didn't realize I have to talk so much and defend my work. (7:57) You know, like, why can't I let the arts speak? (8:03) That was the sort of culture in Japan. (8:06) You don't present so much and you don't certainly defend your work.(8:11) So that feistiness in a classroom in Central Saint Martins was a complete cultural shock to me. (8:20) I absolutely hated it in the beginning. (8:24) Just leave me to it.(8:25) I work incredibly hard, but just don't make me stand there and defend my work. (8:31) But anyhow, sorry, it's off the track. (8:34) You're asking me how I became a sculptor.(8:41) That was the question, wasn't it? (8:44) So my major as a conceptual art major, I was focusing on performance art, video installation, site-specific work for a good 10 years. (9:00) At the same time, I had to live in London and living and making art is (9:13) a biggest nightmare for any budding artist. (9:17) You have to earn money, still make work.(9:21) And if you're making a conceptual work, gosh, the life is so much harder, right? (9:27) If you have a work as a soundbite, if you have a work as a video installation, (9:36) number one, it's not even sellable. (9:39) Number two, you have to find an incredible gallery rep in order for you to be able to pay rent. (9:47) And that wasn't happening to me.(9:49) Plus, I had to find someone who can sponsor me to carry on living and working as an artist in London. (9:59) So I had to hassle. (10:01) I had a job, lots of jobs, anything I can get handled so I can carry on doing my work.(10:11) Then first forward, I became slightly sick of doing a lot of computer work (10:19) and hassling over digital art. (10:27) At the same time, I was getting extremely resentful of life because I wasn't able to (10:36) live off of my work. (10:38) As a result, I was doing a lot of freelance work.(10:41) Anything from nannying, waitressing, art direction, set design, production, runner, (10:51) anything you can imagine. (10:54) I was getting exhausted. (10:57) One day I woke up thinking, I miss Clay.(11:01) I was playing with Clay a lot ever since when I was a child. (11:07) So it was more my oasis, if you like, because I didn't need to be serious. (11:17) I didn't need to write an art statement.(11:19) I didn't need to approach a gallery. (11:22) This is something I want to do for myself. (11:25) It's playful.(11:27) I could draw in the air without no (11:34) art world pressure. (11:36) So I created a little Clay oasis for myself. (11:40) This is like 10 years ago now.(11:42) It turned out to be. (11:44) It was a rather healthy move. (11:59) It's something you enjoyed.(12:02) Not just enjoyed. (12:03) It was crucial to reconnect, rewire, fingertip and my neurological pathway. (12:18) If you're doing a video art, let's say, most of the time you're editing.(12:26) You're sitting in front of a computer. (12:28) That's a lot of background work, nothing to do with raw material. (12:34) While when I'm performing, of course, it's body and it's space, it's raw material, (12:42) whatever that I happen to be using.(12:45) But Clay, ceramics is, as you know, water, fire, hand, and that's pretty much it. (12:53) In centuries and centuries, ceramics technology hasn't changed. (13:01) We use a fancier kiln to fire.(13:04) But other than that, Clay is Clay, water is water, fire is fire. (13:12) And I could able to express something perhaps more honest. (13:21) Mm-hmm.(13:23) And I also started to enjoy my ceramic work was talking to, let's say, real people. (13:35) When you make a video art or site-specific something, rather, you have to read lots of (13:44) copy to understand what's going on. (13:48) I was talking to very exclusive audience, (13:53) people who either studied or speak such language as a conceptual art.(14:02) And majority of population don't speak conceptual art. (14:08) If anything, I think people are afraid of, if they start talking about contemporary art, (14:14) they might look silly or naive in some way or not cultural enough. (14:22) So they don't tend, they don't like to engage.(14:27) But ceramics was different. (14:33) It was talking to the people who perhaps didn't need to study conceptual art. (14:39) You hold, you feel, it's an object you can decorate your house with.(14:49) It, because I was so much more relaxed and I wasn't trying to produce artwork, (14:54) in the beginning, at least. (14:58) So people saw it as a perhaps decorative object, (15:03) something they can purchase and put it on your bookshelf. (15:08) And that was, that was actually wake up call for me.(15:15) I wake up call because I forgot how important it was for me to talk to real people. (15:26) The way that my painting or printmaking, (15:30) I was also making lots of etchings in more traditional fine art medium. (15:39) And I was so hungry for it.(15:44) Someone's able to say, what a beautiful painting. (15:48) And I used to took that as a compliment. (15:51) But if you study conceptual art, or if you're a conceptual artist, (15:54) if someone goes, oh, that's beautiful.(15:56) Then I was like, oh, okay, I failed. (16:00) You know what I mean? (16:01) Yeah, it's about the thinking of it or the thought, right? (16:03) It's not about what it looks like. (16:05) People are afraid of beauty.(16:08) You know, if anything is looking too nice to your eyes immediately, (16:15) you're a failure as an artist today. (16:19) And I bought the idea too. (16:22) I thought more reactionary, more grotesque, more challenging conceptually.(16:29) I thought that that's where I want to be. (16:31) And I pushed myself for it for decades. (16:33) It's like you conditioned yourself to think that way with the education (16:37) and how you were surrounding yourself.(16:43) And I admire those artists. (16:45) And I still do. (16:46) I'm grateful for the education that I had from Central Saint Martin.(16:54) And I won't be who I am today if I didn't have that education too. (16:58) I feel like I'm in between academic fine art background that I had (17:09) and the conceptual art backgrounds that I had. (17:13) They became like a big soup now.(17:15) And that's how I see myself. (17:18) And I like this. (17:19) I like talking to real people.(17:22) And I really don't find offensive when people go, oh, that's really pretty grace. (17:27) I'm like, that is pretty. (17:29) I'm glad I've spoken to you some level.(17:34) So did I answer your question? (17:37) This is so vague, isn't it? (17:38) No, no, that's pretty good. (17:40) I mean, you're giving me the layers of your background, (17:44) what made you who you are today, right? (17:47) You can't just pinpoint one specific instance that then led you this way, right? (17:53) It's a number of things. (17:56) Yeah, it's definitely a number.(17:58) Life is complicated, as you know. (18:02) But I feel like finally I'm trying to get me-ness, the essence, (18:11) and try not to be somebody else, try not to be someone who I thought I should be. (18:21) And also I became mum.(18:22) That was another thing. (18:26) I didn't really like to produce the work. (18:29) I wasn't able to explain to my son.(18:33) You know, that was a- (18:35) Yeah, and that's the way it is with conceptualization. (18:38) I mean, if you saw my old work, I don't think my son would- (18:44) I know that he won't understand. (18:47) So I can read a Foucault for him.(18:49) That's, you know, I don't want anyone to look at my work, (18:53) and if you haven't read a Foucault or Nietzsche, you won't understand my work. (18:57) That's not where I want to be. (19:04) Being a Japanese-born artist, has the culture, community, (19:10) or landscape influenced your creative practice? (19:13) See, you kind of already answered that.(19:16) Has it been through context, form, or story (19:19) that has been your ultimate reference point and influence? (19:24) In other words, what initially starts your creative journey? (19:32) So I touched a little bit on backgrounds. (19:34) Probably I'm mixing everything up. (19:36) I'm sorry.(19:36) That's okay. (19:37) Breaking your structure. (19:39) You know, this question is an excellent question.(19:45) In the last sort of decade, (19:50) people do ask the singular question, (19:53) why are you so obsessed with Japanese mythology? (20:01) It's one of those questions. (20:04) I can't take it lightly. (20:08) It could turn out to be a quintessential element of my work.(20:18) And let's see. (20:20) Hang on. (20:21) So your questions are- (20:22) Sorry, I need to break down your question.(20:23) Your question is- (20:29) I can repeat it. (20:32) So you want to know how my Japanese heritage is influencing my work, yes? (20:38) Yes. (20:39) Yeah.(20:44) It's influencing me deeply. (20:47) Like I said, one question that it follows me around. (20:53) Why am I so obsessed with Japanese mythology? (20:56) And we'll be right back.(21:06) So this is actually, it links up to the previous question. (21:10) I abandoned my heritage in the beginning. (21:16) For me to fit into Western art world, I desperately want to be a part of it.(21:27) And just to give you an example, if you go to Japanese ceramicist studio, (21:35) you will still see a fire god's house in the studio. (21:41) Can you imagine that? (21:42) If I'm building a little fire spirit, fire god's house in a Saint Joseph Martin's studio. (21:52) Giving a little sake before I fire my sculpture.(21:56) Sharing my lunch. (21:59) I'll either be sent to hospital, or maybe they think that's a part of live performance. (22:11) Or people walking through temple, and you will see Komainu, which is a mystical lion statue.(22:24) And people simply bow at essentially a rock, old rock. (22:30) Because they think it carries wisdom, and it gives you courage and wisdom. (22:40) Some people might think Japanese are just so superstitious.(22:45) Maybe. (22:46) There's a lot of unseen world is woven into today's society in Japan. (22:57) I.e. ceramicist is casually bowing, sharing a lunch and giving a sake to little spirit in a studio.(23:10) That sounds insane in the West, but it's not in Japan. (23:18) And I hated that side of Japanese culture, being teenager. (23:25) I think you hate everything when you're a teenager though, right? (23:28) Maybe, maybe.(23:30) As I came to London, I thought I have to. (23:37) Hmm. (23:40) I was trying to reinvent myself to fit in to the shape that's been pre-customized by (23:53) conceptual art movement since the 60s.(23:57) Of course, I thought I was successfully doing it. (24:00) I don't think I could fool anyone. (24:01) But anyhow, it turned out to be life is difficult and life is complicated, and life is extremely (24:14) tough sometimes.(24:16) When you're teenagers and 20s, life is not so tough. (24:20) No disrespect to any younger artist. (24:25) Life is good.(24:26) You know, you're idealistic. (24:28) Your health is great. (24:32) You don't have a family to look after.(24:35) Probably your parents are still in a good shape. (24:38) Your friends in a good shape. (24:43) So, you know, you're clueless because you haven't suffered.(24:52) It's counterintuitive, but the more suffering that we go through, the stronger we become (24:58) if we are able to face the suffering. (25:02) And Buddhism, the first line of Buddhism is that life is suffering. (25:08) You may think that how gloomy is that? (25:13) Turned out to be not so gloomy.(25:15) Life is full of suffering. (25:17) We have to face death. (25:19) We have to face illness, catastrophe, the wars breaking out, economical, you know, collapse.(25:28) Mm hmm. (25:29) As I go through life tragedies, my sphere of should I use the word atheism? (25:44) Because that's I feel like I'm going to be opening a can of worm. (25:50) What word are you saying? (25:54) It's because I plant myself in a godless society, which is the (26:03) one and so many people do, right? (26:05) There's the atheist.(26:06) Yes, yes. (26:07) And I'm not a religious person. (26:12) Yes, I came from the Buddhist background and culturally Buddhist, but I never practiced.(26:19) I only go to temple to eat nice things. (26:23) I go to New Year because that's where my friends are. (26:26) I go to temple because my friends are getting married there.(26:31) You know, I'm that kind of culturally Buddhist. (26:37) People will laugh at me if someone says I'm a Buddhist because I don't see myself as a (26:42) Buddhist. (26:43) But what I'm trying to get out of this, because I don't want your audience to be put off by (26:47) this religious reference, God and deities and spirit.(26:53) All the things I abandoned turned out to be it became very useful tool when I was very (27:04) ill or when I was in a hospital or when I lost a loved one. (27:12) It often happened to people. (27:16) Let's say, you know, you have a road accident and a lot of people are pissed off with God (27:22) all of a sudden, even the aces, you know, shaking a fist at the sky.(27:28) What are they shaking a fist for? (27:30) I was that person and I just became very curious. (27:36) OK, I'm suffering. (27:39) It is difficult and my conceptual art is just not cutting it.(27:44) I started to read a lot of Japanese folk tales, mythology. (27:52) Things, the ones I used to hate because it didn't scientifically prove any of the mystical (28:00) story. (28:01) You've probably seen some of my sculpture collection, maybe Satori collection, let's (28:09) say.(28:10) It's a mountain god who hears people's lies. (28:14) And if Satori hears lies, they eat people. (28:18) I mean, what kind of nonsense is that? (28:22) Do not lie.(28:24) OK, fair enough. (28:26) But what's this? (28:28) This character's a mountain god's child and eating people. (28:35) It felt like old fashioned and backward when we are trying to shoot a rocket up in the (28:40) sky.(28:41) We might be living in Mars in the next century. (28:44) What are we doing is like demons and spirits. (28:49) Turn out to be.(28:50) I was the one. (28:52) Shallow minded in reading a sentence to literally and not seeing beyond what narrative carries (29:03) the weight narrative carries. (29:10) So these days, my work is sort of the bridge between.(29:16) Past and today. (29:17) I feel like it's my mission to decode. (29:24) The mythologies that I once abandoned, I thought, that's not true, bin it, I thought.(29:33) Turned out to be. (29:34) That's really not why. (29:35) That's really stupid, really.(29:38) That's because I thought the old man was beard that doesn't exist. (29:44) A mystical river that's not exist. (29:49) And I didn't really question what it might be.(29:52) What really is Satori? (29:55) What is this? (29:57) You know, Mountain God, is this evil character or is this not? (30:05) You know, it's a lot of like a decoding there. (30:09) Or as I ask for help going through life tragedies, it became very helpful. (30:19) This mythology, because it carried that.(30:22) A lot of. (30:30) It gave me a solid guide. (30:32) Yeah, well, I was just thinking maybe it gave you like you realize that it wasn't about (30:37) how the stories if they could be real or not, that it was more a metaphorical understanding.(30:43) Mm hmm. (30:44) For sure. (30:45) Of them.(30:49) Some of the stories that I'm reading, it is thousand and thousand years old. (30:57) And that's that's including when people did not know how to write. (31:01) So most of the story was, you know, great, great grandparents telling kids.(31:09) Right. (31:10) Because they believed that story was significant enough to pass on. (31:17) And today's still exist.(31:20) That's got to be something. (31:24) It carries the weight. (31:28) And then suddenly I got a little chills in my back.(31:32) Thinking of how old some of the mythologies are. (31:36) And today we feel like we were tremendous. (31:40) We shooting a rocket.(31:41) We have an Internet and incredible technology. (31:48) Marvelous. (31:50) We hardly ever die, you know.(31:54) Yeah, the medical advances. (31:57) But we are hosting a bunch of different kind of problem today. (32:08) It people laugh at the first world problem.(32:14) You know, the Uber didn't show up on time. (32:18) Oh, my gosh. (32:19) Internet is, I don't know, three bar left.(32:23) Panic, right? (32:24) Where's the where's the 4G, 5G? (32:29) You know, oat milk was running out. (32:33) What are we going to what are we going to drink with coffee now? (32:35) It is. (32:37) But this joke is not.(32:41) A joke. (32:43) It's a serious matter because most of us are. (32:49) Suffering with depression and we don't know how to deal with death and we don't.(32:56) We're living a life soulless and not fulfilling. (33:02) That turned out to be a catastrophic problem in today's society. (33:10) And this mythology somehow offers that guide.(33:15) And that that influences my work tremendously. (33:18) So going back to the first question, the second question is, how does it influence this? (33:24) This is my long winded way of influence. (33:27) I believe these gift from ancestors.(33:33) Are the key. (33:37) To move forward, progress as a human into future. (33:46) So I'm excavating those stories out using my ceramics object.(33:58) And your question. (34:00) Yeah, and you're weaving the stories into into your stories. (34:04) It's for sure.(34:05) My work is always deeply personal. (34:09) For me, it has to be personal. (34:14) I don't know any artist who can produce.(34:19) Artwork without being too personal. (34:23) Well, I can't speak for everyone, at least for me, it has to be deeply personal. (34:28) Sometimes when I look back and see the work I was making, let's say, 20 years ago, (34:33) I feel like embarrassed.(34:35) Gosh, what the hell am I talking about? (34:37) But it was important for me. (34:39) Maybe I was going through relationship problem, sexual revolution, (34:48) whatever the suffering that I was facing, I'm reacting to that, right? (34:54) And I think that's the only way to do it, at least for me. (34:58) So, yes, it's deeply personal.(35:03) As I go through early motherhood right now, (35:12) that weaves into my current art practice. (35:20) Reading about your floating coffins, killing your soul piece. (35:25) And this is your clay warrior figurines that are protecting the dead in the afterlife.(35:32) One of your most recent work, you were afraid to not be an artist (35:38) as you saw yourself becoming your worst self. (35:43) Would you say ultimately this piece connected you more honestly with yourself (35:49) or your local art community? (35:51) Was creating these Japanese figurines, your talisman, (35:55) a form of peace offering to your larger creative practice? (36:01) Or is it more a cultural offering to your cultural heritage? (36:09) So I'll try to answer that a bit by bit. (36:14) The haniwa, my last solo show, Killing Your Soul, Killing Your Own Soul.(36:27) I presented over 50 haniwa warriors. (36:31) Haniwa are traditional talisman in Kofun era. (36:42) We used to bury haniwa warriors with deads.(36:51) That's because when human body dies, (36:55) soul will depart the body and go through the new journey. (37:04) And haniwa warriors meant to protect soul, soul's new journey. (37:12) So these warriors, they're made up with earthenware.(37:23) And some of them are really big, actually. (37:27) It's as big as a little child. (37:30) And if you arrive to Japan, just look out of your airplane.(37:39) If you see looks like a tiny little keyhole, that's actually tomb. (37:52) And underneath, it's also a big tomb, underneath often a king or queen's body. (38:03) Literally some of the tomb has thousands and thousands of warriors.(38:11) They're all protecting all around, obviously dead bodies, bones. (38:17) In Osaka, there was a lot of archaeologists working and digging warriors out. (38:31) My brothers and I, I have two brothers.(38:34) We used to go around Osaka, skateboarding, BMXing, (38:43) and watching haniwa warriors being dug down carefully, immaculately by archaeologists. (38:58) It was rather, it left a strong impression to me. (39:06) One, I somehow like this warrior being discovered out of someone's grave.(39:18) And I like the look of it. (39:21) And I like these hundreds of archaeologists using a brush and little shovels, (39:31) and taking forever to rescue these figurines. (39:40) It looked like they had an important mission to deliver.(39:45) Meanwhile, it was our part of playground, skating around, (39:51) watching the haniwa warriors being dug down one by one. (39:57) And sometimes they line them up together. (40:01) So if you're lucky, you get to see hundreds of them all together.(40:05) What a treasure. (40:06) Mm-hmm. (40:08) First thought, in London, there's a metro, we call it tube, (40:15) because the central line goes between West London to East London.(40:20) Go through the city, City London, Liverpool Street, where a lot of office and banks are located. (40:31) I'll be on the central line. (40:35) And we'll be right back.(40:44) Let's say around five, six o'clock on Thursday, Friday, (40:49) and people are looking sharp as you reach the city, bank, Liverpool, Moorgate. (40:58) People look very well-groomed and well-dressed, (41:01) but exhausted from life. (41:05) And things that I often hear, thank God it's Friday.(41:11) You know, and I always thought, what a peculiar thing to say. (41:19) Thank God it's Friday. (41:22) I made notes to myself, this will keep happening.(41:28) You know, every week I meet these well-groomed people. (41:35) They have more watch than they need, and their shoes are shiny. (41:40) Their nails are very groomed.(41:44) But they seem dying inside. (41:50) In fact, they would actually use those words too. (41:54) Oh my gosh, I'm dying.(41:56) Dying from what? (41:59) I thought. (42:03) Then this Haniwa came back to me. (42:07) Yes, the original Haniwa was made to protect the soul (42:15) departing from dead body after death.(42:21) I thought, perhaps we need a Haniwa more than ever to protect the soul (42:27) while we're still alive. (42:31) That's how I started to make a Haniwa. (42:37) That's how I started to make a Haniwa.(42:42) That's how I started to make this warrior. (42:47) Didn't think about making a solo show or turning to collection, anything like that. (42:53) It felt like a necessity to react to the situation.(42:58) It was unfolding in front of my eyes. (43:03) So that was the impulse to how I started to make. (43:09) Yeah, and you connected more honestly with what was going on around you.(43:13) For sure. (43:17)Honest also for my own soul too, as I said, (43:25) as an artist, when you are not able to live, you hustle. (43:32) Have perhaps more straight job.(43:37) Sometimes you don't get the balance right. (43:40) You keep doing a side hustle because money might runs out. (43:45) Living in London is extremely expensive.(43:51) You don't know when next side hustle opportunity will come. (43:55) So you sometimes guzzle too much and you witness your own soul (44:01) getting collapsed at the same time. (44:06) If you, you know, I wasn't the kind of artist who's going to be living on a street (44:14) and creates work for nothing.(44:18) You know, I think I'll be too stressed to make my work if I can't pay my own rent and (44:25) kids are not getting fed. (44:29) So I also watched my soul too. (44:35) So in that sense, honest reaction to what was happening in the world or my immediate (44:42) reality and my own soul too.(44:46) I just watched as if I'm a hawk in the sky, you know, hovering around. (44:59) What is going on here? (45:01) Because something was going terribly wrong. (45:05) That central line carries, I don't know how many, God knows how many people.(45:12) All the hearts are still beating. (45:16) The souls are departing. (45:18) I mean, an endless escalator.(45:25) London Underground is quite deep and you see the people going up and down, up and down (45:32) and they're all saying, thank God it's Friday. (45:39) That surely we have to act on it. (45:42) That's how I felt.(45:46) Your Haniwa piece, it wasn't about, because I was saying that it's, I was asking you, (45:53) is it a form of a peace offering for your creative practice or is it more of a cultural (45:59) offering for your heritage? (46:01) But it's kind of really neither. (46:02) It's more about the present moment and what you saw around you. (46:08) Yes, for sure.(46:10) All my pieces begin that way. (46:16) I collect the things that bugs me, the things that are keeping me awake in the middle of (46:23) the night, you know. (46:26) I'm not the kind of artist walking around in the forest and ta-da, I'm inspired.(46:33) Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. (46:35) If anything, the way I make work is more gloomy. (46:40) The things bothering me, things are bugging me and just miss the bug.(46:44) There's hundreds of them, obviously. (46:47) And I just wait, watch which bugs are speaking loudest. (46:56) And one by one, I'll try to offer my solution in my own way.(47:07) And that usually turns into a collection that turns into an exhibition. (47:22) Ah, sorry. (47:29) Yes, yes.(47:33) Yes, yes, yes, yes. (47:35) And let's clarify for the audience. (47:39) Noe does not make bugs in her ceramics.(47:45) Just in case they may get confused. (47:47) No, they're not bugs. (47:50) It's what bugs her that she makes, yeah.(47:56) The style question. (47:58) Often this comes from younger artists. (48:01) I often get to ask this question.(48:04) And I really like it. (48:06) How do you develop your style? (48:08) Or maybe the real question is, how do you, how do you? (48:12) In the beginning, I didn't like this question. (48:14) I'm like, what does it mean? (48:17) How do you develop your style? (48:18) You know, it's rather peculiar.(48:21) You make it so that it's your style. (48:24) But then I had to confront that question more deeply because I was getting that question a lot. (48:35) The short answer is make a mirror.(48:40) But perhaps this is too abstract. (48:44) So how do we, how do we make a mirror? (48:47) When I say mirror, you have to be deeply, deeply, brutally honest. (49:00) And be vulnerable.(49:03) And that's what I mean. (49:05) And why is that mirror? (49:06) Because if you really see yourself, other people actually see themselves. (49:20) And people are afraid to be honest.(49:27) And that stops them, you know, the fear of being naked in front of crowds. (49:41) And that, but we have to go through this. (49:45) I often think when I make work and when I judge, am I being as honest as I can be here? (49:58) The marker is often, it feels a bit dangerous.(50:01) You feel like, oh, I don't want to go there. (50:07) It feels too naked. (50:12) Too vulnerable.(50:14) And that's about right. (50:15) I think that, you know, I tell myself, oh, I pushed hard enough. (50:22) Further enough.(50:24) Then a strange thing happens. (50:30) It's counterintuitive, yet a lot of people start connecting with your work as you go naked. (50:39) Because they see themselves.(50:40) You're giving them an opportunity to see themselves naked too. (50:47) And that's when people start valuing artist work. (50:52) Not just with their time and energy, but with money.(51:00) That's how you become distinctive. (51:02) Just making a mirror. (51:14) Mm-hmm.(51:32) Okay, becoming a mother and an artist has been a bit of a struggle for you, (51:37) both with your father being an artist and the overwhelming responsibilities. (51:42) How have you seen continuing to be a creative as a benefit to your family as a whole? (51:50) That's a good question. (51:51) Because I was terrified to be a mom.(52:02) Because I believed children will hijack my life, my career. (52:14) That's something I worked so hard for so long. (52:19) And turned out to be, it's never a good time.(52:24) At least it was never a good time for me. (52:31) Also, we live in a society where we were told the career is the most important thing. (52:40) And I took that to my heart.(52:46) I worked incredibly hard. (52:50) And I was definitely career-driven throughout the 20s and 30s. (52:57) But here's the problem.(53:01) My belief was, as long as I'm focused and I work as hard as I can, (53:07) my work will be good. (53:09) Or at least I won't have any regret left. (53:12) So that was my rationale.(53:15) As the career develops, you have more opportunity, bigger opportunity. (53:22) And you certainly don't want to miss any opportunities. (53:25) And the type of, probably any artist, (53:29) most of your audience are probably artists, right? (53:31) Or maybe not.(53:33) How would you define the audience? (53:35) So far, yeah, it's mostly artists. (53:37) It's artists, yeah. (53:41) So for us, we're the kind of people who work to death.(53:48) Working throughout the night, that's no problem. (53:50) Working 10, 12 hours straight in a studio, that's not a problem. (53:55) If this was the office worker, that would be insane.(53:57) If someone asked you to work throughout the night. (54:00) And they come back nine o'clock tomorrow the following day. (54:05) So when you have a life of work approach, it's not a good time, right? (54:13) To be pregnant and stuck with babies and kids.(54:19) I rejected that idea for, gosh, many, many years. (54:27) However, my husband had a different view. (54:33) I actually know him for a very long time.(54:37) Even when he was in early 20s, he was already talking about, (54:43) it would be cool to be dad. (54:46) He can imagine having multiple kids. (54:50) I mean, can you imagine when you're in 20s? (54:52) Did you think about having a kids when you're in 20s? (54:54) I don't even know how old you are.(54:57) Did you think about kids? (55:00) Yeah, no, no, I did not in my 20s, no. (55:04) You're in 30s, 40s? (55:07) I'm in my 40s. (55:09) Do you have kids? (55:11) No, no, I do not.(55:13) But I have 10 nieces and nephews. (55:15) So I feel that's pretty good. (55:18) So I was going through a marriage crisis.(55:29) Because the one person, as I was approaching 40 in late 30s, (55:37) I understood that work is really important for you, (55:42) career is important for you. (55:43) And he forgave me throughout the 20s, he said that's no problem. (55:51) 30s till mid 30s, there was no problem.(55:55) After mid 30s, it became shaky. (56:00) Shaky because he felt his life is not completed without being a father. (56:11) And somehow he knew that he will be a decent father.(56:18) And he was telling me, his name is Ed. (56:21) Ed telling me I'll be a good mother. (56:25) That was just like, number one, how do you know? (56:29) Number two, I don't even want kids.(56:32) Number three, I tested myself. (56:36) My girlfriends are having kids by then. (56:38) But I mean, I like kids, but over the lunch, (56:46) I don't mind having little kids around on Saturday afternoon.(56:51) That's fun, but I want to go back to my studio. (56:57) If I have an opportunity, I can't jump on it. (56:59) It just sounds like they're going to hijack my life.(57:03) What a terrible idea, I thought. (57:05) But at the same time, I didn't want to give up on our marriage. (57:11) As terrified as it was, resentful as I was, (57:17) I agreed to have a first child, Issei.(57:22) He's six or seven, and I became mom six years ago. (57:33) Turned out to be, turned out to be, what a surprise. (57:37) It was incredibly good for me.(57:40) I can't sugarcoat this. (57:43) They do hijack my life, obviously, because they're kids. (57:47) They need mom more.(57:50) But all the things that I was afraid of, it turned out to be, (57:55) it was just made up story from my frontal cortex. (58:01) The biggest mistake or the things I could not imagine, (58:06) I didn't realize the kids would actually help me to make better work, (58:16) more meaningful, gave more depth. (58:22) I was so selfish.(58:25) It was all about my work. (58:28) I was the kind of girlfriend who would cancel Valentine's Day dinner (58:32) because I'm inspired. (58:34) I need to stay in the studio.(58:36) I'll see you at home whenever when I come out. (58:41) Christmas dinner, I'm inspired. (58:45) I'll be there, don't know when.(58:49) You sacrificed everything for your creativity. (58:54) Sorry, say that again. (58:55) I said, oh, you were sacrificing everything for your creativity.(58:59) Yeah, I thought that's what the artist meant to do. (59:03) It turned out to be that selfishness. (59:08) It stinks.(59:10) It leaks and it stunk my work too. (59:16) You know, it's self-centered. (59:19) Stinks.(59:21) And Motherhood is ultimate wake up call. (59:26) Suddenly you become secondary. (59:30) And that was actually a really nutritious element of my life.(59:41) It became so weird. (59:43) If someone asked me, who would you die for? (59:48) It's one of those questions I would have laughed at. (59:51) Yeah, that's a stupid question.(59:54) And we'll be right back. (1:00:03) Until you become mom,that become clear, now you know who I'm going to die for. (1:00:08) I actually, that gave me a new set of colors that I didn't even know that I had in me. (1:00:20) Actually, I had to change everything.(1:00:22) I had to change the way I work in a studio. (1:00:26) Those like 12 hours non-stop working, it's impossible, obviously. (1:00:33) I'm still breastfeeding my youngest one.(1:00:36) So I started to work quickly and have a break and come back and go back to the studio again. (1:00:44) In the beginning, I absolutely hated it. (1:00:47) I thought this is interrupting my flow.(1:00:54) How am I going to ever make a large-scale installation? (1:01:00) Actually, maybe I don't need to make a large-scale installation. (1:01:03) The 12 hours non-stop, there's no such thing 12 hours non-stop anyway. (1:01:08) I don't know what I was doing 10 years ago, but I was working long hours and I thought (1:01:14) I was working hard.(1:01:15) Now I work really efficiently. (1:01:17) And when I have to take a break because you have to change nappy or you have to breastfeed (1:01:21) the baby, I go back and I see the fault almost immediately because my mind had to be hijacked (1:01:32) and I had to go back in again. (1:01:35) And that process is kind of interesting.(1:01:37) I work faster, smaller scale and I make decisions fast. (1:01:45) As a result, I became more intuitive. (1:01:49) So, yeah, it's like practically it was interesting the way I changed (1:01:57) dealing with clay, sculpture and philosophically, it was a complete wake-up call.(1:02:06) I would probably advise 20-something years old me to (1:02:13) don't be afraid and don't miss it because they're ridiculously funny. (1:02:19) And of course, it's hard, but they change your life in a way the modern world can describe. (1:02:31) And that will end up feeding your artwork because it's feeding you as a human.(1:02:39) I often say to younger artists, there's one studio where you produce your work. (1:02:52) Actually, no, first studio is called life. (1:02:56) That's all the raw material.(1:02:57) That's most important ingredients for your work. (1:03:02) It comes from first studio called life. (1:03:04) And second studio is where you make work.(1:03:07) You feed your raw material into the second studio. (1:03:14) And if you think that way, it makes sense, right? (1:03:18) The mother food thinks I was terrified. (1:03:21) Of course, it's going to end up feeding me as a human.(1:03:26) So, I could feed more colors, more energy, more depth, more thinking into the second studio. (1:03:40) Every heartbreak, every catastrophe would feed artwork. (1:03:49) Obviously, that's historically been proven.(1:03:53) So, I have no idea why I was so afraid. (1:03:58) But now I have four kids, actually. (1:04:03) Yeah, and my studio, ceramic studio with four kids.(1:04:06) Can you imagine? (1:04:07) I have no idea how I'm making a work ever. (1:04:10) Anyway, yeah. (1:04:16) How would you say your materials impact or change your sculpture? (1:04:21) More specifically, how does your choice of materials influence meaning? (1:04:27) Do you choose your media before you begin sculpting? (1:04:31) Or does the material itself shape the work? (1:04:34) So, I mainly use clay right now.(1:04:40) What do you mean by how do I choose my medium? (1:04:44) Well, it's just always clay. (1:04:45) You never work with other mediums kind of thing. (1:04:49) Oh, I see.(1:04:51) I stay open-minded. (1:04:54) As I explain that to you, the journey of my work, I pay attention to things that it bugs me. (1:05:07) And that bothers me.(1:05:12) And sometimes I keep it in a drawing form or writing form. (1:05:16) I like writing. (1:05:17) And writing crystallizes my thoughts.(1:05:21) If you have an open-minded personal trait, your mind is everywhere and constantly chattering. (1:05:28) Writing keeps my mind still and it crystallizes. (1:05:34) My writing often reveals what's in my mind.(1:05:39) And then, as I write, I go, oh, sometimes it's like one sentence. (1:05:47) This is what was bothering me. (1:05:52) And then I can start sketching endlessly, for instance.(1:05:59) And I pick medium according to that. (1:06:04) So, whatever's bothering me and my answer, that sounds like that's too big. (1:06:14) How can I shed light to this problem? (1:06:18) What I deeply believe that that's the problem that's suffocating humanity today.(1:06:26) And if that light needs to be through video performance, I'll do that with a video performance. (1:06:32) If that needs to be through a painting, I'll do that with painting. (1:06:36) At this stage of my life, I love using clay, fire, water in my hand.(1:06:46) Very, very basic ceramics today. (1:06:48) It's nothing fancy. (1:06:52) Yeah, because I'm recording ancient wisdom, Japanese mythologies mostly.(1:06:59) It somehow makes sense. (1:07:01) And I like the fact that those ancestors, they weren't even artists. (1:07:08) People who were using just mud and fire pits to fire their talisman.(1:07:20) I actually enjoy using the same technology, same material with them. (1:07:29) So, for now, this medium works for me, but who knows, you know, tomorrow I might need to go back (1:07:40) to do site-specific installation that disappears overnight, you know, maybe. (1:07:48) So, I stay open-minded.(1:07:50) This is why, because I've been producing ceramic sculpture for decades. (1:07:58) Decades. (1:07:59) People started to call me a ceramicist.(1:08:07) I tried to keep myself just an artist. (1:08:10) You know what I mean? (1:08:11) Because that name is, I found it very dangerous. (1:08:16) Because if you name yourself, well, I didn't.(1:08:19) People named me as a ceramicist. (1:08:21) I will become one. (1:08:24) So, that's dangerous.(1:08:25) So, I often say, well, no, I'm just an artist. (1:08:28) I use clay today. (1:08:32) Yeah.(1:08:34) I'm curious because it's a podcast. (1:08:36) It takes so much of your energy and time. (1:08:40) I mean, I don't even know whether you can live off of a podcast.(1:08:48) I'm always curious. (1:08:52) Well, good luck. (1:08:56) Because I think people are hungry for a meaningful, long-format interview.(1:09:05) Yeah. (1:09:06) No, it's not yet, but I'm working on it. (1:09:08) So, we'll see.(1:09:10) I think so. (1:09:12) Art world is small. (1:09:16) Yeah, yeah, I think it's helping.(1:09:20) I like it. (1:09:24) Yeah, yeah. (1:09:26) And I think I haven't seen very many other sort of people doing this.(1:09:30) I don't know. (1:09:31) I think it's helping. (1:09:35) I think it's good to be sort of an aside to the artist or, you know, just be a part of (1:09:42) the art community still, you know, in a supportive way.(1:09:45) That's how the artist spirit always has been, right? (1:09:48) We always find a rundown landscape where it's cheap to live. (1:09:55) You go in there and do a nice thing and paint a few things and do the performance art on (1:10:03) the street and until the organic cafe pops up and, you know, bankers slowly started to (1:10:14) buy out. (1:10:15) Then we move into another space and we do a nice thing again.(1:10:21) Yeah. (1:10:22) You're just doing it in a soundscape. (1:10:24) Yeah.(1:10:27) Globally available. (1:10:29) And I love that you're offering this soundscape. (1:10:38) Yeah.(1:10:39) I'm enjoying it and I'm hoping to, yeah, to make some money with this because I could (1:10:45) get advertisers on, you know, like galleries and art stores and then other advertisers (1:10:52) as well. (1:10:53) So, but yeah, it is a lot of work, but I'm like, you know what, I like it. (1:10:56) So it's good.(1:10:59) Great. (1:11:00) You have a great energy. (1:11:02) I hope you will be successful.(1:11:06) I'll speak to you soon. (1:11:09) Yes, you too. (1:11:10) Bye.(1:11:14) Join me next time as I go down another rabbit hole with another creative professional on (1:11:20) their insights, their inspiration