Episode#6 Callie Gray: Weaving Quiet Amidst The Chaos

Callie Gray gravitates her creativity into bursts of joyous abstractions rich in energy and spontaneity to make your heart sing. She is an award winning international Artist that has found a spiritual connection in Art that transcends experience into a unique understanding of the world around her.

Join me as we take a deep dive into her creative process, her inspirations, her insights, and what triggers her into finding her innovative sense of style. Is it her mindfullness or her fascination? What is it in the act of creating that truly motivates her?

Originally from Nottingham, England Callie shares her thoughts on how city to rural life impacts an Artist creatively. How does it influence your technique, subject, and even palette? We discuss her influences from art history, and how Gustav Klimt stumbled into our context of her roots artistically.

You can enjoy more of Callie Gray artwork on her website:
https://www.calliegrayart.com/

Podcast Interview Credits
Sound Effects from Pixby
Audio Links from https://freemusicarchive.org/
Podcast by Carolyn Botelho

Connect with Callie Gray:

https://www.calliegrayart.com/

Transcript

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Creatively Thinking Podcast. Join Carolyn Batello as she uncovers the inspirations behind some incredibly creative minds that are orbiting our local communities. Hello Callie Gray, how are you today? Welcome to the Creatively Thinking Podcast. 
 
 You are an award-winning abstract artist. And I like to ask every artist, what exactly makes them choose this path of a career? Is it expressing yourself visually, working with your hands or communicating your emotional insights? Okay, well, hi, Carolyn. I know I didn't let you in there, did I? Yeah. 
 
 Well, hi, Carolyn. Okay, so you've asked me what makes me choose this path for a career. Well, it's all of those things. 
 
 I can't quite remember what you said, but it's all of them. And I've always done creative things. Like I'm just, I'm definitely a creative person.
 
 So everything I've done has always been some kind of basically creative. Like growing up, my mom was a dressmaker. So right there, I had a house just chock-a-block full of fabric.
 
 So I think that was my first creative views were fabric and fabric design and texture. And so, you know, textures, patterns on fabric was pretty big in my life to start with. And also, my grandmother also was an artist. 
 
 I didn't really know my grandmother very much. I met her maybe a couple of times. But just the thought that she's an artist, I don't know, really kind of inspired me. 
 
 And I saw a couple of paintings of all these are pretty good, you know, and plus, I was pretty good at art at school, right? And I think there's also something really romantic about being an artist. So it's like, well, what else am I gonna do? That sounds good, doesn't it? When you say I'm an artist, it sounds classy or something. Yeah. 
 
 Yeah, I'm just, I'm very, I like working with my hands. Definitely. I like doing visual things. 
 
 And I guess I'm, that's what I'm good at. I was pretty good at looking after people too. I did. 
 
 For a number of years, I looked in, I worked in a group home as a caregiver. I actually really loved that as well. So that's just a whole other side of me as well.
 
 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 
 
 And even as a kid, I remember entering at school, you know, you do art class, and then they get you to enter like a few competitions and stuff. And even doing that, I won a few. So I'm like, Oh, okay, I must be quite good. 
 
 Yeah. And that helps, right? Yeah, yeah, it kind of reinforces that, you know, you're thinking that you're doing well. Yeah. 
 
 And you win something like, okay, I guess I must be all right. And these were big national competitions. So I was like, Oh, okay, you know, maybe I don't remember ever coming first, but certainly placing very high up. 
 
 So I'm like, wow, that's pretty good. Yeah, that's definitely meaningful. Does that answer your question? So when you indicate that nature nurtures the soul, that when we embrace it, we find freedom to explore, dare and dream. 
 
 Are these aspects you can only reach as a practicing artist, where in your creative process, would you say is your ultimate sort of Zen moment, the pinnacle of creativity? Is it in capturing the composition, the act of painting or even in the exhibition stage? Okay, so, well, I think that I've said nature nurtures the soul. That's not just for artists. I think that's everybody really. 
 
 I think everybody would agree that is for me and certainly most people I know that when you're in nature, you just you just feel fantastic. You just totally immerse yourself in nature, you just you can connect to something that's primordial, I guess. And so definitely, you definitely don't need to be a practicing artist.
 
 And also the definition of an artist is not just a painter or a writer or an actor or all of those things that we think of as the arts, but it's just the way you live your life, like you can be a creative person, you live in a creative way. To me, that means you're an artist too, really. It's not you're not practicing professional artists, say, but you just live a creative life. 
 
 And in doing that, you definitely you're in tune with nature, I think anyway. Yeah. So painting, you asked about the ultimate Zen moment. 
 
 I don't really know. I mean, there's certainly I think the best time is when you get in the flow. If you're painting, and you never know when it's going to come, it can come out of nowhere, or you just lose yourself, you're in the flow. 
 
 And all of a sudden, it doesn't matter what you do, you can't do anything wrong. Everything just comes out brilliant. And I love that. 
 
 But it's really hard to get that. And I think sometimes the more you strive for it, the more elusive it is. Yeah, the more yeah, yeah, exactly. 
 
 So you gotta let it come naturally, really. So let it flow, right, just gotta let it flow. And if it does, it does. 
 
 If it doesn't keep going, keep going. Sometimes it'll, it'll come just from sheer tenacity, really. But it's all, it's all part of the process to and I love that the journey of painting. 
 
 So, but certainly Zen moment is, yeah, when it all comes together, or I think mainly towards the end of a painting, when I can see that it's just going to be a good painting. That's a real nice Zen moment, too. You know, sometimes when you're doing a painting, yeah, and it's, it's a struggle, this painting is just a struggle. 
 
 It's been right from the beginning. And even when it is now, there's just no Zen moments. Sometimes you just have to paint over and start again, you know? So, yeah, yeah. 
 
 Yeah, that's about it for that one. So we met years ago in Toronto. Now you are up in a Laura Fergus, in the Laura Fergus area.
 
 Yeah. How would you say the transition from city to rural as an artist has impacted your creativity? Has it influenced your subject matter? Has your style or mediums changed? Or has it only increased your reach as an artist professional? Sorry, that didn't come out right. I didn't read the word right. 
 
 I have to cut that out. Okay. Or has it only increased your reach as an artistic professional by giving you more clients? Right. 
 
 Well, yeah, I did. I used to live right, downtown Toronto, in a condo building. I think at the time when I was painting, yes, my art was much more, it's much more kind of like a grid shapes and rigid and even though it's still, it was still abstract, I did, I even used cardboard for a whole bunch of years. 
 
 I was really into putting cardboard on the canvas and painting that on. So it had a really textural surface, but also had these lines, you know, not the, when you strip the cardboard down, it's got that wavy corrugated bit in the middle. So I used that. 
 
 But then when I moved away, I think to change, there wasn't a huge change. I mean, this is huge change as an artist, which just, just happens naturally, no matter where you are or what you're doing. It's just the progress, the journey of art. 
 
 But I think that being more in the country, because even though I'm in a small town, I'm in my backyard, it's just gorgeous. It's lovely here. And we can walk on the floor and I went to walk through the conservation area. 
 
 So it's nice. That certainly made my art a little bit more fluid. Yeah, shapes were definitely more fluid, less rigid. 
 
 Colours, it's also more, more nature colours as well. And then also, I'm more vibrant. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, they were vibrant before, but yes, vibrant in a different way, I think more. 
 
 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 
 
 I mean, like, right now, I'm really painting a lot of, I'm really into landscapes and gardens and flowers. I'm doing a whole bunch of floral things. So I don't, I wasn't doing that at the time when I lived in Toronto.
 
 I go down to Florida in the winter, like with snowbirds. That's nice. I paint down there too.
 
 There is a difference. So that's had a really big impact on my life as well. That has definitely had an impact on my colour palette for sure. 
 
 Like now it's more tropical colours and blues and aquas and watercolours, greens, and also more seascapes or water is generally a theme that's through my work anyway, but it's even more so now since going to Florida. You say you are inspired by the emotions, nature inspired within you. Can you expand on this? Or is it more of a transcendental experience that is difficult to put into words? Is it more of a feeling that you feel while you are being creative? Is the act of painting where you find that connection? Well, it's not just the act of painting, but well, nature's always grounded me and kept me sane for sure. 
 
 Like in times of trouble, that's definitely my best place for reflective thoughts and healing would be to go and take a long walk in nature, preferably by myself. It's my meditative place, definitely when I'm in nature, it's where I go and kind of meditate. And I talk to myself a lot, especially when I'm in nature. 
 
 Nobody's around to think I'm crazy. Yeah, that's okay. That's where you get the most.
 
 Yeah, they say it's when you start somebody starts talking back to you, that's when you've got problems. But yeah, I mean, I do I talk to myself, I talk through situations while I'm out for a walk in nature. I use nature as a place for visualization, for things that I want to happen, say, in the future. 
 
 Like I remember for before when I was living in Toronto, no, but before I moved to Laura, I was really into like the law of attraction. I've heard of that. Believe you, you visualize that you've already got the things that you really want. 
 
 But you can't Oh, yeah, can't want them. You have to just imagine you've already got them. So I got really into that. 
 
 worked out pretty good for me, actually. So that's the one that my husband and I got to spend time with my mom in England, and I got to be a painter. So if you're into the law of attraction, I can tell you, it works. 
 
 Yeah, so yeah, what we're talking about nature, right? Now, I'll tell you the emotions I feel in nature of peace and joy and contentment, happiness, stability, and of course, the sense of awe and wonder at times because nature is, is pretty powerful, like the raw power of Mother Earth, you know, she's in control, and that she always gets the last word for sure. Yeah, see that with things that are going on with climate change at the moment. Wow, you know, nature, don't mess with nature. 
 
 But also nature can it gives you a sense of hope. And I also really believe that we're all all connected. And that we're not separate from nature, or God for that matter, and that we're non duality and that we're all connected and everything that happens to me is part of what happens to you. 
 
 And, and it's that, when I paint, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to be in that language, that feeling, I'm trying to express through painting, my sense of that connection. Yes, the interconnectedness, I'm trying to paint how nature makes me feel connected to everything. You are quite prolific. 
 
 Yes, yes. Does your creative practice lend itself to being this way? Or is it more of a controlled activity? Do you use photographs? Or do you prefer to paint was it plein air? Meaning outside? Plein air, plein air. Plein air meaning outside painting outside? Or do you work from a memory and the act of painting somehow releases the memory? Well, that's that's quite a mouthful there. 
 
 Let me see. Well, you said I was quite prolific. Hmm. 
 
 Yeah, probably have to disagree on that one. Yeah. I'm always trying to, I'm whipping myself saying you got to paint more, you got to paint more. 
 
 Because it's just never enough, right? Or well, I know other people think you're painting a lot. And some people I am but to other people, it's quite awful. Some people I know that just churn out so much work, but in some ways, you have to because not all of it's going to be good. 
 
 Yeah. You got to just keep turning it out. That's true. 
 
 You know, I also you asked me, oh, yes, my photographs. Well, no, I don't use photographic reference when I'm painting. It's purely intuitive. 
 
 Like I just from my intuition. So, but I do love taking photographs. And although I don't specifically use them, the art of taking photographs for me is it keeps my eye trained on composition, you know, looking for good, always looking for good subject matters. 
 
 And it's, it's, it's, it's filling up that tank, that reservoir of ideas. Your own picture file in your in your brain, right? Yeah, yeah, my brain, it's filling it all up, you know, soaking it up like a sponge, everything that's going around me and taking photos is very good for that. It's good. 
 
 Sometimes I'll look through old photographs. And that can be very inspiring, too. Yeah. 
 
 And taking photos also helps you to stay stay curious, and stay present. Stay present. Yeah. 
 
 But but when I paint, it's, it's definitely it's an intuitive way of painting. And that as I paint, like I'll start off kind of with big blobs, big areas, like a big area and a small area of paint. And then that's a layer.
 
 And then I'll put some marks on and I'll, I'll just keep adding more layers and each layer informs the next so that's telling the last layer is telling the next layer where to go. That doesn't always lead in the right direction. Takes you somewhere and you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. 
 
 It's not meant to go down here. And that's not good. That's not the right direction we're going today.
 
 No, you got to paint things over because they just, yeah, you know, come out terrible part of the process, right? Yeah, but it's all part of the process. And it's also for me, like when I paint as well, brushstrokes are very rhythmic, like I use a lot of repetition, and it's almost like the brushstrokes are like a dance, you know, when you're dancing, just freeform dancing, you haven't planned anything, you're just trying to be a bit gracious and a bit, you know, trying to look good, right? No, that's what, you know, that's what painting is about for me, it's about finding this rhythm and this groove. I mean, sometimes I'll even kind of put my whole body in there almost with making marks, you know, and just kind of really get into it or put some music on, kind of dance, that'll help.
 
 And I don't, I don't really paint outside, but that's something I might try in the future. Alora, the town here, Alora actually has a big plein air festival every year in the spring. Oh, that's nice.
 
 And I was going to sign up for it this year, but I chickened out. But I think next year, I may well do it because I'm, I mean, I'm just right next to the pedestrian bridge that crosses and there's the Alora Mill, so I'm like right downtown, so there's just lots of beautiful things everywhere. Well, I could, you know, whip up a few mill paintings, maybe or something.
 
 Yeah, for sure. How would you describe your creative practice if you had to condense it into one sentence? Would you describe yourself as being one with nature and it speaks through you? How would you describe your interconnectedness with nature? I feel like you just said all that, but if you could explain it a little bit more. Yeah, yeah.
 
 You've already explained it. Yeah. Well, let's see, one line is I paint in layers, with each layer informing the next step.
 
 Well, let's look at nature. Nature is organized chaos, to some respect. And for me, nature is very vibrant, it's very joyous, powerful, it's wild, it's adventurous and it's unknown, magical.
 
 And I think of my painting as weaving all those threads together, all those things that I just said. And I think art, just like nature, it has the power to transcend boundaries and connect us to our inner selves. And I think that connection to nature and art both can bring incredible healing and mindfulness in the way that we live.
 
 I posted this quote on Instagram today. Let me see if I can remember. It was by Seneca or something.
 
 Oh, so good. So art is like highly sensitive people reporting back to the group what art is like for them. What reality is like for them.
 
 Art is highly sensitive people reporting back to the group how reality is to them. That was really cool. Yeah.
 
 Yeah. Hmm. Okay.
 
 Yeah, that is cool. Yeah, I saw one recently, but I'm not going to try to look for it because I don't even know where I saw it. But it was something about, yeah, the artists are the intelligent ones or something, but I forget the rest of it.
 
 There's more to it than that. Yeah, that sounds right. We're the intelligent ones.
 
 Yeah. And we'll be right back. If you were to describe your work as being influenced by an artist from art history, who would you say inspired you creatively? Has it changed over the years or have you stayed consistent and only deepened your awareness and how this style has influenced you intuitively? Well, yes, it's definitely changed over the years and it's constantly changing.
 
 Let's see. Let's go back to when I was a child, well, as a teenager. I remember this was something that really, really changed how I saw art, I guess.
 
 As a young girl, I grew up in Nottingham, United Kingdom. I remember that we went on a school trip down to London and we went to see some exhibitions, some art exhibitions. And I mean, even though I'd been exposed to a lot of texture, textiles and patterns and bold colours, my mum never had any art on the walls.
 
 I don't know why. She just didn't. There was nothing around the wall.
 
 It was all for me as a child growing up, purely just looking at textiles and that kind of thing. It's not like we had the Internet back then, was it? We went to this exhibition in London and it was Hundertwasser. I don't know if you've ever heard of him.
 
 Sounds German. Yes. Austrian, actually.
 
 An Austrian painter. Oh, Austrian. I think his main paintings are back in the 50s, 60s, 70s, that kind of era.
 
 He's not alive anymore. But his paintings, I remember staring at them and just being gobsmacked. I'm like, wow, this is totally different.
 
 And he would paint. He had this whole theory as well that was based on the spiral. And he's one of these artists that also went on a bit like Gaudi.
 
 He did architecture as well and did some amazing buildings. Some of them are in Vienna. So I actually did see those.
 
 So these buildings are also based on this form of the spiral, that there are no straight lines in nature. Just like the Gaudi buildings, they're just all kind of undulating and just bold colors and beautiful, like little mushroom bits. So his paintings were just very, very powerful, especially the colors.
 
 He uses lots of reds and yellows and greens, very pure pigments and pure colors. And the subject matter, they were all things in his life and his world. It looked like he'd paint a lot of houses, but they'd go around in this spiral.
 
 It was just like, you've got to check him out. Yeah, I'm totally going to check him out. It's amazing.
 
 He also used a lot of gold paint, too, which is kind of unique. I've never seen that before. Oh, wow.
 
 So that was really very influential. Wait a minute. You're saying you didn't notice.
 
 Do you remember Klimt? Gustav Klimt, like in art history? He used tons of gold. Oh, I love, yeah. I mean, but I'm saying this was like my first time in England.
 
 Maybe I was like 14 or 15 when I really got suddenly saw different art. Up till then, it was, we weren't really very exposed to art, to be honest. Oh, yeah, because your mom with the textiles, yeah.
 
 Maybe just textiles, even at school. I mean, we did art, but I don't remember people showing you these amazing paintings. But yes, Gustav.
 
 Gustav Klimt, another person that's just like mind boggling. And the size of his paintings, the scale, too. I went to see like his Kiss there in, I think it was Vienna.
 
 I was just like, wow, because it's huge. It's a big painting. It's just breathtaking.
 
 Yeah, he was another one. Gustav Klimt, for sure. I'd forgotten about him.
 
 So thanks for that little reminder there. You know, and also some of the giants of art. I remember being really into Fernand Léger.
 
 Yeah, I used to love his stuff, too. Again, it was those very bold, bright colors and lines, I guess, shapes. Casso, I was into for a while.
 
 And then I guess there was a shift. And then I started, because these were all more kind of things like houses or people. And then Monet's gardens, I saw those, too.
 
 And I was just like, wow. Like his paintings of his garden at Giverny. His water lilies, that was mind-blowing, too.
 
 And his haystacks and those kind of paintings. And then also, I really especially love the work of Jean-Michel Basquiat. Love that.
 
 He was just such a shame that he died so young, because he was so talented. His raw energy and his ability to just make a language and put it on a canvas. Just phenomenal for me.
 
 Like, I just love it. And same with Andy Warhol. I loved Andy Warhol.
 
 Not so much maybe his art, though I do love his art. But the whole thing of him and this factory and this. Yeah, his persona.
 
 He was the brand. He was the market. I just thought that was amazing.
 
 I love him. And again, another guy died too young. Very sad.
 
 And then I get a lot of influence as well from my peers. Seeing what they're doing. I follow a bunch of people on Instagram and Facebook and stuff who I admire and love their work.
 
 And for sure, it rubs off and it comes out in certain ways. The biggies would be definitely Jean-Michel Basquiat. Van der Wasse.
 
 Klimt, to think of it. Yeah. After you complete your artworks, do you see them as individual complete pieces or as a part of a greater whole? A part of your overall oeuvre of works that are connected? In other words, do you work in series or individual works where they are completely on their own? Well, that's a really good question.
 
 Do I see them as individual, part of a greater whole? Well, it's definitely both. It's hard to separate, right? It is, totally. I do work on a series.
 
 So I don't work on one painting from beginning to end. I've always got a room full of paintings that are always half finished. And I try and start maybe... Well, right now, I've just started three biggish paintings, 36, 48.
 
 I'm working on those three. But I also have other ones on the go as well. These three, I'm kind of trying to really narrow down my process.
 
 I'm really kind of trying to do the same thing on each one and see what happens, you know what I mean? But a lot of the times, I'll start a series with nine, anywhere from six to nine pieces in a variety of sizes. Usually a couple of really big ones. I'll pin on the wall kind of thing, pin a big piece of canvas up and going down to smallish, but not that small.
 
 If I do anything that's like 12 by 12 or under, I have to just do those all at the same time. I find it hard to mix big paintings and very little paintings for some reason. If I'm going to do a bunch of little paintings, which I haven't done for ages, I'll have to just do them all together.
 
 So what else did you ask me? You can repeat it if you want to. What's that? I said I could repeat the question if you want me to. Yeah, sure.
 
 After you complete your artworks, do you see them as individual complete pieces or as part of a greater whole? A part of your overall oeuvre of works that are connected? In other words, do you work in series or individual works where they are completely on their own? So it's just, do you work separately or do you work in groups kind of thing, a series? Yeah. So, well, yeah, definitely I'd say I work on a series. But when they're finished, they are their own thing.
 
 They're not, I mean, they can be connected to a series, but, you know. That series becomes one piece, is that what you mean? Yeah, it's got its own life, it's its own thing, you know. Then you've got to go through the whole naming process, which can be a bit complicated.
 
 I always try to pick names that are either mindful or a little bit with a bit of sense of humour, you know. I mean, my paintings are, I try to make them joyful and joyous. And people always say that my painting makes them happy.
 
 So try and give them titles that are similar. Reflective as that. Yeah. 
 
 Another thing, when I'm working on a series of paintings, I say I've made up a whole bunch of one particular colour. It's on the palette and I don't want to waste it. So then I'll look at what's in the stack.
 
 I'll look at what else is there and think, hmm, what else could do with a bit of this colour? And I'll just go through each one and put a bit of this colour on this. And, you know, just pick out areas and put it on. Actually, that's kind of how I work mainly.
 
 I don't particularly put out a palette of set colours. I'll work out kind of one colour at a time and put a bit of that on every one and then go to the next colour and put a bit on that. So it's kind of a strange process, but that's what I do.
 
 Well, no, that sounds good because you want to be mindful of the paint because paint's not cheap and you want to... Well, exactly. Yeah, I just, I hate wasting paint. Yeah, that's something that I'm always trying to work on.
 
 But I think that's also just growing up, you know, with a mum that grew up in the war, that generation where, you know, it kind of rubbed off into your kids that don't waste anything. Oh, I know, I'm like that with my parents. They came over on a ship from England and so they were talking about they had to eat like mouldy bread at the end.
 
 And I'm like, I know, I'm like always making sure I use up everything. And, you know, if there's a bit of mould on the bread, well, just pull it off. You can still eat.
 
 I know, I know exactly what you mean. I'm thinking exactly like my parents do. Don't waste.
 
 Yes, don't waste. But you've got to be careful because sometimes that can make you miserly with paint. Sometimes if you need a big gob of paint, you've just got to go for it.
 
 I've been working on that because that's a hard thing to break, you know. Years of living scarcely and, you know, make sure you don't waste any food or don't use too much water. All these things I can still hear my mother yelling at us.
 
 Get off the phone! Of course, it doesn't matter nowadays, right? Back then you had to pay every penny for the call. Get off the phone! In your artwork, do you have meaning in your method of executing your works? Or do you prefer the connection you have with the paint when you paint? The renewal, the memories. Is that the structure you have more with your subject than your medium? Or do you have metaphors you communicate? Yeah, well, I think I've kind of just answered that really.
 
 In some ways it's to do with the paint, isn't it? The physicality of the paint. Because I'm an abstract painter, it's not so much about the subject. It's not like I'm painting a person or a house or something.
 
 Yeah, you're not trying to achieve accuracy. Yeah, so it's definitely about the physicality of the paint. It's not just that, but that's definitely part of it.
 
 Yeah, like I say, I'm still trying to hone down my process at the moment. I'm trying to make every painting start in a similar way, which is the physicality of the paint. It starts with composition of something big, something small.
 
 Big globs of paint and working from that. And then it's about finding the composition. Because, I mean, just because it's an abstract, it's still very important to have a good composition.
 
 In fact, that's really important. If you don't have a good composition, even in an abstract, it doesn't matter what you do, you're going to go round and round in circles and it's going to look like crap. Yeah, it'll look like mud.
 
 Yeah, yeah. I mean, in some ways, composition, it can also mean that you've chosen to have a composition that doesn't have a composition and that it's all the same. You know what I mean? Or that it's all chaos.
 
 Although I do, I'm trying to embrace the fact that I do kind of paint generally kind of a lot of chaos, but at the same time, it is good to have quiet areas in your painting for people to rest their eyes on. At least that's what they tell you. Yeah, you mentioned also about metaphors that I communicate.
 
 I definitely do. Like I have certain stylized marks that, you know, there's something even I notice when I look through old pictures of my art. I have certain marks that I use over and over again.
 
 And what do these represent? Well, I think sometimes I have this kind of like it's either a U or an M shape or this kind of, it's like a bird, like a flying bird. And to me, I think that represents our, like birds are this representation of freedom. They can fly.
 
 So when I paint those, which are pretty much in everything I paint, it usually means that I'm trying to express that we're free or that we need to be free and that we need to fly in the metaphor of enjoying life and loving life and that we have all this freedom and we're so free and lucky and we should be grateful and blah, blah, blah. Right? And it's also, oh, another thing I do is polka dots. I noticed I have a lot of polka dots in my art.
 
 And those represent fun. Definitely fun. Childhood, like innocence, game playing, the cheeky side of life, the fun side of life.
 
 So I do, I noticed that just lately I wasn't putting polka dots in my work. I'm like, uh-oh, I like the polka dots. So I'm trying to put them back in again now.
 
 Because they definitely represent fun. And I think when people see that, they just, you know, they see something that's got polka dots in it, it just instantly makes you feel fun, right? Just this. Yeah.
 
 What are your thoughts on authenticity and originality? Is this critical in your practice as a pursuit, or do you see it as already evident in your work being abstract? As an abstract artist, do you have any insights to share on the transformation of your natural subjects to artistic completion? Well, let's talk about authenticity and originality. I think those things, like a lot of, I see a lot of people that struggle with that, in that they don't feel they're authentic, or they haven't found their style, right? That's a big, that's like a lot of people selling courses on like how to find your style, and how to be more original. And I think that eventually just comes.
 
 Some people are lucky, they just seem to have it right away. But that's something you just got to keep going, keep going, and going, and going, and practicing. And I also think that if you look back at your own work, always keep record of your work, take photographs as much as you can, take videos, whatever, just somewhere, keep looking at that stuff, and examine it, and try and figure out what was I doing here? What do I like? What don't I like? What works? What is mine? What am I seeing that's in all of these paintings? And eventually you'll probably see something, it might be a way that you do a painting, it might be a certain line, or a certain mark.
 
 And do that more, do that more, because that's going to make you stand out, that's going to make you be original. So that's something I'm doing right now, is I've just started these three paintings, but I've started them by going back and look at some of my paintings that were very successful. I thought, yeah, this is a really good painting, I love this painting, it sold right away, I'm going to try and recreate it in a way, but I'm also looking at, well, look at how these paintings, they all have these little bird shapes, or these little net shapes that I do.
 
 And I'm like, that's me, and I need to remember that, and I need to keep putting that in stuff, because that's who I am. It's like your signature. It's like my signature, yeah.
 
 Yeah, so I've been really working on doing more of that, because sometimes in the process of being a painter, sometimes if you keep going and keep going and keep going, that's good, you want fresh and you want new, but you forget where you came from, and I think that's why it's really important to look back at your old stuff, to see what worked and what didn't, because otherwise you can go forward, and all of a sudden you're painting a whole bunch of works, and they don't have any of your little marks in it, and you're like, well, what's wrong? I thought I'm progressing, I thought I'm getting better, but it's not selling so well, or it doesn't look right. Because you've forgotten your little bits of who you are, you forgot to put your little signature in it, so that's really important, so everybody's listening there, it's a good thing, go back and look at your own work, and see what it is that you can add to make it more authentic. Oh, and also I think when it comes to copying people's styles, in order to grow and learn, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and even if you do copy somebody's style, and try and think, oh, this is it, I'm going to paint like this, well, it won't work, because it's not you, but you can learn something from it, and you can grow from it, and eventually you'll get to your own style.
 
 I mean, that's what great artists did years ago, they would copy the masters, and I'm sure you probably did that at art school, right? Yeah, it was really fun. Oh, wow, yeah, but you probably learned a ton from doing that, right? Yeah, learning from great masters, I don't think I've ever actually managed to copy an old master, because I always get bored halfway through it, but doing that, I know that's a really good exercise, because you really have to think, well, how did they do this, and then you've got to try and execute that, and it really makes you grow as an artist, I think. And we'll be right back.
 
 Well, I just thought of another one while you were talking about all these paintings you're doing, and I thought of it with other artists, but I just always forget, it's just like, I guess maybe I should do a logistics episode with everybody, just putting in their little answers to this, but it's like, what do artists do, okay? Because as an artist, you have so many works, right? You've painted so many works, do you just get bigger houses to put these in, or do you sell them all right away? I'm just thinking logistically, where do these artworks go? Do you just have big houses? I don't know. That's a fantastic question. Oh my God, yes, you have to ask people that, because yes, oh my God, that is always a huge problem.
 
 I was just talking to my husband the other day, I'm like, hmm, because we have a basement, but it's an old basement, it's got tree trunks down there, so this is a really old house. I'm like, you know, I need more space again. I'm like, do you think I could use the basement to store stuff in, put it off the ground, because yeah, you do end up with tons of paintings, and you're like, you know, I mean, a lot of the times I will recycle, after so many years, I'll just recycle an old painting, I'll try and sell it, I'll try and sell things cheaper when I do my studio tour, I usually have a bunch of really old paintings that are really cheap, you know, just trying to move stuff, because other than that, it's just, you've either got to repaint the canvas, but some of them, that's not possible, because they're just too lumpy, or they've got stuff on there, so you've got to just strip them down and just use the stretches.
 
 But then, yeah, I mean, I know some painters that have huge stacks, areas where they've just got all tons of paintings, just stacked up, even when you look at old paintings, old photos of Picasso in his, I don't know, three or four studios, but they're all just stacks and stacks of paintings against the wall, you know, just tons of them, in various states, but, I mean, you can't just move to a bigger house. Yeah, I mean, ideally, you want to, that's why I'm always trying to hone down my process, because ideally, I like to have paintings where I don't have that problem, they sell, they're gone, you know, and I've got room to carry on painting more, and I'm always so jealous and so inspired by these artists that they do a show, and then, like, I sold out, I'm like, what, you sold every painting, I'm so jealous, because that's never happened for me. But some people do, not many nowadays, but they do, I think that is the ultimate recognition of, if you're a good artist, if you can, you paint a collection, and then they're gone, you can sell them out, and then you don't have to worry about storage, but, yeah, storage is a big problem, and for a lot of people, if you don't have a studio, or you've just got a little tiny room, what do you do with this stuff? You should buy storage, but again, that's another cost, or even renting a studio, when I was in Toronto, I did rent a studio for a bit of time, but it was expensive and small, there wasn't really anywhere to store stuff, and I looked at prices, and now, I'm just like, oh my God, that's like a mortgage, just to have a studio.
 
 You think back to the 1970s and 80s, even Warhol and Basquiat, they had great big spaces in downtown New York, dirt cheap, I'm like, lucky buggers, nowadays it's so hard, everything is so expensive, so yeah, that's a really good question. I don't have a great answer for that, other than just trying to paint paintings that will sell. Recycling them, yeah, I never thought of that, because I only painted over one of my paintings so far, but yeah, that's totally, totally the best way of just finding storage.
 
 Oh, I do, yeah, after a while, they don't sell, and it's been sitting around, I was like, okay, or you can even paint over it, maybe, and leave bits of it coming through, and use that as your starting point, or paint over it with a thin coat of white, and then you'll see something coming through it. Yeah, and then it's still the older paintings still there. Yeah, so you've got something to paint on top of that, so okay, it's a start, right? I was wondering what your thoughts are on how the cities you live in influence your work as an artist.
 
 Is it in the form, style, color, or how does it become part of your visual identity? Well, not really in a city, I'm in a small town, Alora, but we do have a lovely arts community here, like the Alora Furbis, I'm part of the Alora Furbis studio tour, which is coming up soon, the last two weekends in September and into October, so there is a big artist community here, and then there's an Alora Center for the Arts here as well, which is lovely, a beautiful schoolhouse, and they have studios in there, and a gallery and a shop. I'm also near the Alora Mill, I have a bunch of my paintings in the Alora Mill too, they tie in with the Alora Center for the Arts, so they put paintings there, so it's an artist, it's very an artist-y community. In your opinion, how does music and art interconnect or influence each other in your practice, visually and or spiritually? Yeah, well, I mean, music, yeah, sometimes I will put music on while I'm painting, not always, I actually kind of like silence, like for about the last eight years or so, I'm really into either silence, or I like listening to podcasts, or mindfulness talks or something, but music does, it is an influence, you can almost use it to get into a rhythm, which can come out in your body language, which comes out on your paint, and music's an art too, there's just so much fantastic music out there, music, yeah, and my music has changed just, wow.
 
 What's trending, right? When you're young, you're all into what's for the young ones, right, the pop stuff, what's trending, and then for a little while there, when I lived in Toronto, I used to go to a lot of different things, like the Toronto Symphony Orchestra. Yes, they are good. Yeah, and I loved it, yeah.
 
 Yeah, I went to see Yo-Yo Ma. Oh, wow, that would have been fun. Yeah, my parents were like, what, you're going to see Yo-Yo Ma? Oh, wow, yeah, that would have been cool, yeah.
 
 But then I took my dad to Nine Inch Nails. Ah, nice, nice, nice, yeah. Yes, yeah, exactly, yeah.
 
 It's nice to have different music. I mean, one of my favourite bands, although I haven't listened to them for a while, was The Prodigy. I love that raw energy, I just love that.
 
 I mean, that's like kind of drummer-based music, certainly not really my generation, but I also love like 80s kind of music as well, which is not what we're, I guess that's my, maybe not your, but my growing up, more like a flock of seagulls. They're playing here in Kitchener on the weekend. I'm like, I'm going.
 
 But they also have the Dandy Warhols are playing at the same time. I'm like, oh, no. Dandy Warhols are up there? No way.
 
 Yes, on the same time as the flock of seagulls. I'm like, well, which one do I pick? So I pick the flock of seagulls. My husband liked them too.
 
 Plus, well, they're older, so they might not be around for so long. You know what I mean? So I'm like, well, you got to pick one. Well, that's what my husband and I thought when Peter Gabriel is coming to Toronto in September.
 
 So we're like, well, we got to see him because this is probably the last time we will ever be able to see him. Exactly, that's it, you just don't know. Yeah, music is fabulous.
 
 And I also started volunteering at the local theatre here in Fergus. So they had a lot of cover bands. So that was so much fun.
 
 And then last week, I actually went to a drag show. That was fantastic. And they were the Spice Queens.
 
 So they played all the Spice Girls. I've seen it three times. Like, oh my God.
 
 So that was up in Elora? In Fergus. Oh, in Fergus, yeah, wow. That was cool.
 
 That's awesome. Yeah, music's, music's, yeah. Who doesn't love music? But I like my peace and quiet too.
 
 I find when I get older, I can't just have music on all the time. I like to have peace as well. I think that goes also when I'm in nature.
 
 Like, to me, to go in nature and put your headphones on and play music is almost sacrilege. Yeah. Well, unless you're in nature, but you can still hear traffic, maybe.
 
 Yeah. But if you're in nature, no, I want to hear the birds. I want to hear the trees rustling.
 
 I don't want to hear music. To me, that is music. Yeah, that's the natural music.
 
 Yeah. Yes. You don't need music when you're in nature, because that is the music.
 
 Absolutely, yeah, yeah. So what I was actually trying to get at with that question, though, was how do you see that music influences your practice, or do you not see that it does? Well, I don't think it influences my practice massively. It maybe did a number of years ago.
 
 Not so much now, because I don't, I generally just have it either quiet and I don't listen to music. So for me, it's not, it's not huge. I know some artists, their art is all about listening to jazz and that's what they paint.
 
 Right? So that's not so for me. No, no. Where do you see your career going in the next 10 years? Do you see yourself continuing as you are or branching out into exploring a new subject or moving to Europe or the USA, where you may venture into refining your abstraction in a different direction? Well, yeah, I still hopefully see myself painting in 10 years or more, hopefully.
 
 One of my joints pulled out because I've got a little bit of arthritis at times. I'm like, ahh! I've always got new ideas to branch out into different subjects. I'd really, at the moment, like to do a series of beach paintings, probably inspired by the fact that I'm in Florida for half a year.
 
 But these would be paintings that would be less abstract and maybe have actual birds and beachy stuff in them. I remember years ago, I also did a bunch of paintings on cats that were really quirky and funny. Now they sold right away.
 
 Yeah. So maybe I need to do more of those. People love that.
 
 People love funny, funny paintings, right? Yeah. And cats, right? Yeah. I was looking into doing my art on clothing.
 
 I did get some fabric printed and I did make a dress with my art on it, but that's as far as I've got. Yeah, that would probably do really well. I don't know, that's something I might branch out into.
 
 Yeah, yeah. And then I'm also, like, I am working on, well, I've been working on trying to update my website so that I can include all my workers' prints, like proper prints. I've been working with this company in Kingston there.
 
 So that's coming out soon so that you'll be able to get proper prints that I've seen and know that the colours are right and everything. As far as living in different places, yeah, you know, I'm always open to, you know, I grew up in England, now I'm in Canada, I've lived for a time in Belize, I've lived in Greece, I've lived in Israel, not for massive amounts of time, but short amounts of time. We have friends that live in Mexico.
 
 We keep talking about that. So, you know, we might move to Mexico, but probably not. I also have a grandson, so that makes it very difficult to move anywhere, right? Oh, no! Another one on the way! Yeah, family! You always want to stay in your family.
 
 It's good to see you. Yeah. But then one of the sisters took off to Florida, so it's like, OK, I guess maybe your family doesn't matter now.
 
 You know, I felt bad even for my mum, because, I mean, I emigrated and ended up living in Canada, you know, but family, you realise when you're older, like, wow, family is really important. Like, you know, it doesn't scare me to live somewhere else. I wouldn't.
 
 It still looks very appealing. And USA, I'm there half the year anyway, so. Yeah.
 
 Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right. Thank you so much, Callie, for being part of the show today.
 
 Yeah, we did it. Yeah. All right.
 
 Awesome. All right. So, yeah.
 
 Thank you so much. Thanks, Carolyn. Yeah.
 
 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
 
 I'll let you know and talk to you again soon. Look forward to it coming out and hearing it. Thank you.
 
 OK. Bye. Thanks, Carolyn.
 
 You take care. Bye. Join me next time as I go down another rabbit hole with another creative professional on their insights, their inspirations, and their ingenuity.