Episode#8 Lynden Cowan: Wooden Canvas + Gifted Palettes

Being a self taught Artist Lynden Cowan meticulously creates wild landscapes with highly detailed scenes. Finding solitary amusement as a child Lynden used scrap wood as canvas; making her own paints from dandelions, berries and vegetables. By the grace of teachers gifting her supplies - as kitchen pots were no longer suitable, her talent blossomed. 

Growing up in Brampton, Cowan returned to painting during a time of family sorrow. Fashioning her style after her memories of Nova Scotia where she was born, maturing every Summer by spending it with her Grandmother in a rural atmosphere.  This idyllic setting was the perfect opportunity for Lynden to hone her craft. 

To develop her style in both landscape and architectural subjects. As well as be a true entrepreneur starting her own Art school at the age of 16. Where did she gather the courage to start these amazing projects? Was teaching in her background? Was the gifts of art supplies the incentive to share her new skills with her students? Was her incentive ultimately the breathtaking landscape from her home on the East Coast?

You can enjoy more of Lynden artwork on her website 

www.lyndencowan.com

 or 

https://instagram.com/lyndencowan

 Email is lynden@lyndencowan.com

Podcast Interview Credits
Sound Effects from Pixby
Audio Links from https://freemusicarchive.org/
Podcast by Carolyn Botelho

Transcript

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Creatively Thinking Podcast. Join Carolyn Botelho as she uncovers the inspirations behind some incredibly creative minds that are orbiting our local communities. Hello, Lyndon Cowan. 
 
 It has been a few years since we have been in contact through our local gallery. Oh yeah, I forgot to ask you, would you like me to mention BAB or Beaux-Arts? Well I did do it for the City of Brampton, and I spent 12 years there. And then it started with a conversation, I don't know if you know Paulette Murphy.
 
 I've heard the name. Yeah, Paulette Murphy and I have been best friends for like 35 years. And we didn't have a lot of exhibition space. 
 
 And the city asked us, we had a small women's group, and it was just so that they had to be professional artists in whatever medium they chose. And we did stuff together. So the city came and asked us, there was only like eight of us, and the city came and asked Paulette and I, could you do something with the expropriated buildings downtown? They were doing the Rose Theatre, and you know, it didn't look good to have all these buildings expropriated just sitting there. 
 
 So we looked at it and said, yeah, we could make an art gallery. And it was only going to be for one year, and then it was going to be a parking lot. And the building is still standing there.
 
 But we were so successful in attracting other artists in that, that I gave them two months free rent, just so that they could spend the extra money that they had into fixing up studios upstairs. So we had the gallery downstairs, we had studios upstairs. And even people, artists, you'll remember, like John Cattrizola, he was down on his hands and knees and hammering in the floor. 
 
 And, you know, they all had to do sweat equity. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, they had to put their... They had pride in it. So I spent... Yeah, put their legwork in it.
 
 So it started where we had a meeting and decided, yes, we would do this. And then we put in five bucks each because we had to, there were five of us at that time, because we had to put in for the Arts Council, you know, and be accepted as a thing so we could do this building for them. And they all gave me the five bucks and said, here, you hold it. 
 
 And I got stuck being treasurer and then vice president and president. And I didn't want any of those roles. And I spent 12 years getting this off the ground, you know. 
 
 But then you come to a point where you don't have any time for your own art. Because I really put a lot of work into it. I wanted the artists to get out and do things and exhibit places. 
 
 And I kept pushing them out the door. And we lodged a lot of artists. And they're in different galleries now, which is nice, you know. 
 
 Or they have their own gallery. Oh, that's even nicer, right? So I kept pushing them out the door. Let's exhibit here. 
 
 Let's exhibit there. So when I left, though, the board that was sitting at that moment, got up and followed me and we became SOBA, Southern Ontario Visual Artists. And that's how SOBA came about.
 
 So I don't know if you knew that. No, I didn't know that. No, there's so many different organizations and groups that are out there that I didn't know anything about before. 
 
 Like Gwen was telling me a bunch of names. I don't remember all the anagrams of them, but there's a bunch of them, like just different art groups that are, you know, the watercolour groups and the colour groups and the, I can't remember all the others, but the form there's a, I think there's a colour and form group. Yeah, I'm in the Colour and Form Society, the Ontario Society of Artists, the Society of Canadian Artists. 
 
 I'm a signature member for Federation of Canadian Artists and the Artists for Conservation. Wow. And I'm in NOAA, Allied Artists of America.
 
 Wow, it sounds like so much responsibility, all these groups. Well, with SOBA, they have simple rules. We've all been committed to death, so there are no committees. 
 
 All of them pick something that they want to do for the group. There's 14 of us now, and we keep getting asked by other artists, but we don't want to be a big group. Everybody gets a single vote and the majority rules. 
 
 There's no president or anything. And you share costs for whatever exhibitions you want to be part of. And so there's no membership fee. 
 
 So we try to keep the costs down and exhibitions up. But the most important one is, I don't know if you can repeat this, but no drama, no prima donnas and no BF. Well, there's no swearing in there, that's fine. 
 
 But that sounds like good rules to have. You want to keep it a healthy group. And 11 of us are professional, like international artists.
 
 It's a great group. Southern Ontario. Okay, so what does that include? Well, one lives in Prince Edward Island now, but they're all over the place.
 
 So you're in Brampton, so is that considered South? Well, it started as Southern Ontario Visual Artists because we started, the nucleus was around here. But now they're in Alliston and Shelburne and Niagara Falls. So I guess as long as you're not up in North Bay, then you're South.
 
 We don't have anybody up there yet. Well, it's got North in the title, right? Yeah, I started when I was eight, so I used to make my own colors and that. And my mom didn't appreciate it much because I made them with vegetables and other things and her pots. 
 
 And my dad was a carpenter cabinet maker, so I used to use the ends of wood there for my canvas. And he had other dyes and things like that for the different woods and that. So I used all these different things. 
 
 I didn't use them in her pot. But when I was about 10, one of the teachers came from the school with a couple other teachers, and he brought about $200 worth of art supplies at Christmas time. We didn't have a lot of money. 
 
 We were not, you know. Anyway, my mom hemmed and hawed for 45 minutes because she cannot be beholden. And finally, she relented and said, okay, you can have the paints, but you don't use my pots anymore. 
 
 So I think she just wanted her pots back. Because she could never find them when she wanted to go, you know, make dinner. But I always like to look at everything and see what levels of color and that.
 
 And that probably comes down from, you know, because of my dad too, because he was into cabinetry and, you know, cabinet making. And he used a lot of color as well. And he liked to draw on that. 
 
 So it kind of just came naturally. Mm-hmm. You know, so I spent more time in the woodshop than I did inside.
 
 Well, that's the way it is when you're a kid, right? You just always want to be outside. After these original first stages in your art, what inspired you to create your own art school at the enthusiastic age of 16? Is teaching in your background, or did you primarily feel the need to share your knowledge on being creative? Actually, none of that. I didn't have a lot of jobs in Brampton for kids. 
 
 So I started teaching a couple of kids when I was 14. But a full scale, full scale classes. By the time I was 16, I organized, my parents let me use the large rec room downstairs, and we called it the art den.
 
 And my dad made the easels. And so I made my own job, literally. Because you didn't have a lot of opportunities in that. 
 
 But at one point, I had 83 students. Not all at once, of course. No, that's a lot, yeah.
 
 But I didn't have any more than eight in a class. And that was because of the size of the room. Yeah.
 
 But in the summertime, I used to take them, we used to go away for two-week camps. And they'd be painting outdoors and drawing outdoors and learning how to do that, as well as doing other camping stuff. Wow. 
 
 You were your own entrepreneur. I was judging competitions for the city of Brampton when I was 15. Oh, wow. 
 
 That is impressive. The first one I had to judge was for ice sculpture competition. Outside of the hospital, they did all these ice sculptures. 
 
 And that was quite nice. It was quite nice. When you took up painting again later in life, would you say your skills returned like riding a bike, as if you never forgot? Or did you need to practice acquiring your creative flow again? Was your inspiration the same as before? Or did you have new inspirations? I never really stopped painting altogether. 
 
 But when you had two little kids, you know, painting time was kind of far and few between. So it was a rarity to have a moment to paint, but I never actually stopped. But when my grandmother passed away, then I took it up in earnest again. 
 
 That was a way of dealing with her death. I spent a lot of summers with my grandmother down in rural Nova Scotia. And you paint outdoors and do all kinds of things. 
 
 And and that's why all the paintings, there's a lot of rocks and woods and and water in them. Because that's what I'm familiar with. And it really does influence how you are.
 
 We used to pick clams for breakfast, you know, dig those up. And that if we went into the woods in the back, she tied a cowbell around our waist because of the bears. So you clank your way through the woods. 
 
 Yes. And they'd stay out of our way. But she was a teacher. 
 
 And she used to teach in those rural one one room schools in rural Nova Scotia. So, you know, when I needed something to do, it was kind of an idea like, okay, why don't I teach like I had that skill so I can teach. So that's that's probably where that comes from.
 
 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Your grandma had it. 
 
 So you kind of followed in her footsteps a bit. Being a self-taught artist, have you noticed any stigma, any stigmas or a claim from being at this vantage point in your career? By this I mean, from the gallery and social perspectives, did you notice fellow artists treated you with recognition creatively? Were galleries encouraging and respectful of this accomplishment? Well, with galleries in that they always want to know what what's your art educational background? And I don't have any. So they're kind of like, oh, okay, you know, but then when they see the work, then they're more interested in it. 
 
 So at least they recognize the skill level in that. I went in the American Art Awards once before in 21. And you can Google, it's called American Art Awards Winners Gallery. 
 
 And they, the judges for that are the top 25 art galleries and museums in the States. So I had a couple of pieces in there, one tied third out of 66 countries, and the other one tied fourth out of 66 countries. So you'll find them on that website. 
 
 It's just called American Art Awards Winners Gallery. But they get together every spring, and they dissect all the ones they picked as winners. So they applied a value of $16,900 to one of the pieces, American, and the other one $22,700, American. 
 
 So galleries kind of look at that and go, oh, you know. So this year, I just got notified that I tied fifth out of 72 countries in the American Art Awards, but they haven't done their valuation yet. So I don't know what they put for value. 
 
 But it is the top 25 art galleries and museums in the States. So it does bring you a lot of recognition. And so they kind of, the galleries kind of move past the, she doesn't have any art education bit. 
 
 That doesn't become, that's not important anymore. No. When they see the work, right? Yeah, they look at the work and go, oh, okay.
 
 Yeah, it stands on its own without the education. I'm lucky that way. If nobody liked how I painted, I'd still paint.
 
 No, that's good. I paint because I enjoy it. Yeah.
 
 Being self-taught as a visual artist, do you feel you had to work harder to get the same results as those formerly trained? Or do you see your training as a more gradual process that means you learned the same skills, just at a more relaxed pace at your own speed? I enjoy painting and I do art every day. I do something with the art every day. Whether it's traipsing around, doing stuff in the woods or painting that, but I don't think it's, you know, it's because it's more like trial and error. 
 
 I paint because I like to paint and not because I'm trying to impress anybody or gain skills that other artists have. Because I'm at that point that, you know, if nobody liked it, I'd still paint. It's like you're going through the routine of just being creative for your own sake.
 
 Yeah, for my sake. Yeah, it's a routine that you've developed, yeah, for your enjoyment. I am noted for putting something alive in everything, right? So up in the studio, my studio is at Alton Mill Art Center in Alton and I only go up there on weekends because through the week I can start early in the morning and do other things. 
 
 You know, I haven't found my fairy godmother yet to do all the other stuff. But I'm noted for putting something alive and everything and people will come in. When I finish a piece, the other artists don't want to know what they're looking for, where it is, they want to find it. 
 
 So depending on the mood I'm in, you know, you watch people struggle and struggle and struggle, you know, like, where is it? What is it? You know, which is kind of fun watching. Others will come in and they'll be going, oh, I see it right here. And they point right at it. 
 
 There's one piece called Three Boats and it was supposed to be a sunny, warm day. We had a lot of relishes going up for picnic lunch. You couldn't even see the end of the dock. 
 
 I'm going to be a weatherman next life. So I thought it makes a great painting. But it's got three dories in it and people can't see. 
 
 It separates the maritimers from the non-maritimers because the maritimers will go, oh yeah, one, two, three. The non-maritimers will pick the one in the front and one in the back and then they'll be pointing at the clouds. Is it over here? Is it over there? You know, but the maritimers see the second dory right behind the front one, so and it's kind of fun to watch them. 
 
 It's a wide rowboat. And then you got the people from the city like me and I'm like, what's a dory? What? Okay, so yeah, there's even another separation, the non-maritimers and then the maritimers and then the people that don't leave the city like me. Okay, so your biography online says you work daily, which you were just talking about, on creating your artwork with a continued goal of growing your techniques in visual expression. 
 
 Do you find you do this with trial and error, which you just said, exploring or from experiencing other artists and other galleries? I'm basically a hermit, so it's more from trial and error. Yeah, but you can see people come in and they see the different pieces, you know, and they look at the prints from paintings that are earlier. I do the paintings because the pieces sell, otherwise I'd have nothing to show. 
 
 But you can see earlier pieces as opposed to now, and it's maturing, it's changing all the time. And people recognize that, people that are not, you know, what you would call really into art, they just come because they like to see it, but they recognize it and they comment on it, that this is an earlier piece, this is a mid-piece. Yeah, you can actually see it changing.
 
 There was a fellow a few weeks ago and he kept looking and looking and looking at the pieces. And at one point he was about three inches from one of the pieces. And then he turned around and said, you're a master painter. 
 
 Apparently he used to be a teacher at OCAD for painting. And I thought, okay, as self-taught, I'll take that. That worked well for me.
 
 Yeah. Your artwork is primarily recording moments in nature. Would you say these moments are documentaries of nature or are they recording a specific instance? Are you, in a sense, taking memories of the natural world around us? They're more like a scene that happened and you want to record it so that it isn't lost.
 
 Like we're losing so much in nature and building everything up around and you want to keep that, you know, like the one that has the owl and the tree in that and he's looking over the domain. You want to keep that in your memory. So it's more like preserving the moment.
 
 Capturing the essence of nature. Yeah. If you were to guess the number of layers of paint and glazes you use per piece, would you say you have an average or is this something you've never considered? You have identified the specific colors you use. 
 
 Do you hold any specific meanings with each hue or is it dependent on the subject? It's dependent on the subject, but I do have favorite colors. Like I like cobalt turquoise. A lot of artists, when they do their trees, they make the trees brown. 
 
 If they really looked at they'd see several layers in there. So I usually have the cobalt turquoise in there. I have rose d'or because rose d'or really brings out the vibrancy of the tree.
 
 Yeah. You know, some artists are afraid to use color. Like don't be afraid to use color.
 
 That's what it's there for, for expression. And I usually I had a piece that I just finished this week. I finished it a couple of days ago and I thought, okay, it's finished. 
 
 And then I thought, you know, and I took it up to the studio and I put another three or four layers. So now I'm happy with it. It went off to the photographer today. 
 
 So, but And we'll be right back. So you don't have a specific moment with your, with your paintings, like when, you know, like there's not no sort of signal from the painting that you just know. They're not where they need to be.
 
 You just know, because when you're looking at it, if you're second guessing yourself, like, do I like this or not? Then no, it's not done. You know, you know, when it's done just by, you know, like on this particular piece, it was the branches that were coming out and I was not terribly thrilled with them. And I was looking at them like, like they're okay. 
 
 But, you know, and then I took the little, little 18, I use tiny, tiny brushes, by the way. So I put another four layers in and now I'm happy with it. I had a pewter in there and rose d'or and a tiny bit of, what did I use? Bismuth.
 
 And that brought it out. So then I was happy and then it's done. So you just know when you're looking at it. 
 
 So usually there's about no less than 15 layers, but sometimes up to 30. Do you start with, this is something that Gwen told me about, Gwen, a mother colour, like where you start with the whole canvas is one colour or do you do each section differently? Where did I have shadows in that? I start with Prussian blue and Alizarin crimson. I like that because it picks up the light in different ways and that makes my background colour. 
 
 But I don't use it for where the sky is. The sky, I usually start with Cirellin blue. And I like, I like that because I want the sky clean and, you know, not competing with the rest.
 
 And that brings out the colour. That brings out the colour. Yeah, is it warmer colours in the sky or is it cooler? Depending.
 
 Warmer because I'll have Mauves in there and then Rose D'or and then it's very limited colours that I'll use for the sky. I want it to be, you know, sometimes I'll use Cobalt or French Ultramarine, but those are only tiny bits of colour. You know, because when you're looking at a blue sky, it's not blue.
 
 It's everything else. Like even white is not white. No, no, it's not. 
 
 When working with representing trees, do you have to have a connection with the trees you choose or is it dependent on location or the surrounding areas context? You are involved with a conservation group. Does this connection inform you scientifically about some of your subject matter or is the group research and development based or is it funding based on other climate concerns? The group is more for raising funds for different conservation projects. Like my own project is the Mill Pond up by Alton Mill and they restore parts of it every year and they're really, you know, doing a really wonderful job. 
 
 So with the Artists for Conservation, the connection more is that you go on, you can go like next year they have Antarctica or they can they're going to Africa and you can go on those trips if you want and subject hunt and deeply discount it because you're going with other artists. But in that group you've got like Siri Lester and Robert Bateman and a lot of really good artists. I'm honoured that they selected me as a member and I'm a signature member now for that. 
 
 But with the trees and that I'm very nature conscious and I really like trees and that goes back to my upbringing and spending all the summers with my grandmother. You know, so I gravitate towards different scenes that have trees in them. Yeah. 
 
 I guess you could call I'm a tree hugger. But I really like nature. You're a tree hugger visually. 
 
 I visualise them all the time. Yeah. So I guess, yeah, that means then you have a connection with the individual trees that you choose then, yeah? Is that what you're saying? Well, yes. 
 
 It's for the scene but because I really like to study trees and that when I'm doing a painting with trees and that I'll a lot of times take photos of it in the different stages and then look at it at night and really develop. Like under different light you mean? Yeah. To see how it's developing and it gives that 3D effect. 
 
 When you're doing deciduous trees, I did a painting for people in Brampton not too long ago with their house and it had a lot of trees in it and they really loved how I did the trees. It's all done with tiny little layers, layer upon layer upon layer upon layer and that gives you the feeling that the leaves are moving and they're not just sitting there. They're actually right in front of you. 
 
 You reach out and touch them and that's the impression I try to give to people. Like they're right there. You appreciate them.
 
 You're a fine example of look, you're so successful with your tiny brushes and it's working very well for you. Alton Mill did a little interview picture thing with me and they showed a picture of, they came up specifically to take the picture. They put two of my brushes on top of a dime just to show how tiny they were so people could see that.
 
 That's amazing. My studio mate says they have like one hair on them. They don't. 
 
 They have at least six. You got to have it be able to hold the paint, right? By being a visual artist, do you see the work you create as recreating your experiences in Halifax when you were a child or do you feel your painting rekindles your passion for nature that captures the environment of today and the fragility of it all? I only spent a little bit of time in Halifax as a child. I did have siblings there, but most of it was down the road, you know, Ecumsecum or Somerville Beach, you know, the family owned all of Somerville area. 
 
 Then it got expropriated for a provincial park, which is probably a good thing because otherwise it would be condos by now. But it was rural Nova Scotia that I relate to. Because you go swimming at the bear hole, and I'm not a good spotter, by the way, for that. 
 
 They were all swimming in the bear hole, the locals. It's called that because rocks come in a circular thing so it's warmer in there. One person has to spot for the moose. 
 
 They were all swimming and then they stopped. And I heard this crunch and I looked up and this big moose was looking down at me. So I'm not good for that. 
 
 But yeah, the others fled out. They abandoned me and went into the bushes. Oh my gosh, at least you survived it.
 
 Yeah. But I relate to the woods and the water. So it's more like this is what I'm used to.
 
 This is what I'm happy with. This is where I like to be. Okay, so I have a couple other questions that you don't know about.
 
 Do you want me to go ahead with it or is that too uncomfortable? Okay. So I was just thinking while we're going through this, where do you see yourself in 10 years with your career as an artist? Do you see the trajectory going somewhere you don't know, like maybe going to somewhere in the States or going up north or even going to Europe? I've exhibited in England and I've exhibited with the Circle Foundation in France. And I'm involved with galleries down in the States already, the Zanadu Gallery and the one in Cincinnati. 
 
 I think I'll just probably continue on that. I would really like on my bucket list is to be accepted for the Art Gallery of Ontario or Art Gallery of Canada. But I don't know if I'll get there in 10 years. 
 
 But that would be a hopeful dream. In the meantime, I'll just keep painting. Do you see yourself returning to Nova Scotia to, I guess, rekindle or relive those moments as a child? Every so often, we go back there. 
 
 I have a lot of relatives and I'm really closely tied to my cousin that we would help the grandmother with her cottages in the morning. We used to own all that property and then they bulldozed down through the middle and put a highway and so my grandmother put cottages. And the day after school got let out, I got shipped down to help her with the cottages in the morning with my girl cousin. 
 
 And we're very close. So my son is down there visiting right now. And so the whole family is tied together. 
 
 And I really enjoy being down there. We don't get down there as much as we used to now. And your experience is there? But the ties are still strong. 
 
 Oh, nice. And then, as you've been saying with your artwork, it's like so many of your paintings are sort of being a visual content from that sort of standpoint where you're, you know, you're recording usually, you know, animals and trees and water and things like that. Well, we'll go along sometimes and you'll be driving and I'll see something and I'll go, oh, look at that. 
 
 And we'll pull over and little bells go off, you know, that's a painting right there, right? So you know, once you see it, that's something you want to do. So then you explore in that. And people also send me little drawings and that of come and see this, come and see that. 
 
 The most interesting ones are when they send longitude and latitude. How do you figure that out? Wow. You know, and then other ones are giving you the exact point.
 
 This is where your next painting is. Go three kilometers. There's two houses. 
 
 One has a red door. Turn right. And that's how I find some of my scenes. 
 
 It's amazing how people send you little drawings and little directions. Otherwise, some of these you would not find on your own. You wouldn't know they're there. 
 
 It's like they're scouting your sort of your imagination for you there. They're doing the work for your for your next painting. It's got to be nice. 
 
 Yeah. All right. Well, that's that's the end of the questions I have for you today. 
 
 But but yeah, that was that was really good. So yeah. So it's kind of fun, actually. 
 
 Yeah, we should totally do this again, because yeah, talking about as art is always a fun thing to do. The other thing I do is, you know, like I was asked to do regular contributions to a thing called Picture Pathway and Just Dane Caledon. Apparently, there was a lot of community interest in the work. 
 
 So I just pick a painting every so often and I talk about it. And that's all I have to do. So I thought, well, I can do that. 
 
 Yeah. Good to be inspiring to other people. So it is interesting. 
 
 And I try to explain how I use the colors and that because there's a lot of would be artists out there. Yeah. Yeah. 
 
 So I do. I do regular contributions because there was community interest and to Picture Pathway and Just Dane Caledon. I actually had really noticed them before they came and asked me, but a lot of people read that it's up in Caledon and Headwaters area and that. 
 
 So I just pick a painting and I talk about it every so often. There was one that the Lieutenant Governor selected for her virtual show. And then she put in a booklet of 56 Ontario artists. 
 
 So I talked about that one as my first one. And it's a scene from Shaw's Creek Road. And what she did was she invited the artists to come there to her place. 
 
 And that's when I found out she actually lives at the legislature. She lives on the left hand side. It's like Fort Knox in the ground level. 
 
 And then you go up the two levels above that. But she invited artists and it said business attire. Well, artist business attire is a little different than other, you know.
 
 But my family wouldn't even let me wear my fuzzy socks. You know. So I talked about that. 
 
 And Margaret and I were both invited to this. So we went down there and on the way, the subway stopped. It had some kind of issue there. 
 
 And also the lights shut off. Okay. So the studio across from me, a friend, Margaret Party, she was also invited to this.
 
 So we went down together and we took the subway in. But on the way, the subway stopped. It had mechanical failure. 
 
 And most of it, most of the lights shut down. We're sitting there in very limited light. And I remember saying to Margaret, you know, if they let me wear my lime green fuzzy socks, we would have had more light. 
 
 They're going to express themselves in every way. She invited artists. What did she expect, right? Yeah. 
 
 My business attire is a little different than other people's concept. All right, Lyndon, this has been fun. I hope you're not disappointed in it.
 
 No, I'm actually, yeah, it's been pretty well. I forgot to say that at the start that why I invited you in the first place was because your trees just really inspired me when I saw them. It must have been years ago, like early 2000s in Beaux-Arts.
 
 And I was just like, yeah, these are, wow, just really impressive. And well, because I love trees too. And I just, yeah, I just, the funny part, one tree that I was drawing in BC when I was out there years and years ago, I was drawing it. 
 
 And then after I finished it, like just a basic sketch, it wasn't really anything fantastic. But once I finished it, it broke because it was like so fragile, like the, the trunk of it. Yeah. 
 
 And I was like, well, I just, I guess I just got the, the essence of it right there. But yeah, like I'm always, I'm always interested in trees. And so when I can see that an artist can do them really well, I'm just like, yeah, I just, it's just really inspiring. 
 
 I got to talk to Lyndon. Yeah. I'm like, I got to talk to Lyndon. 
 
 You were, yeah, you're on my first top 10 list. So well, thank you for inviting me. Yeah, it's fun. 
 
 It definitely is. All right. All right. 
 
 Thanks so much, Lyndon. And yeah, we'll chat again soon. Okay. 
 
 Thanks. All right. Bye. 
 
 Bye. Join me next time as I go down another rabbit hole with another creative professional on their insights, their inspirations, and their ingenuity.