Episode #4 James Flux: Flow State - Unique Energy Pulsing From The Ground Up

With us on today's Podcast is James Flux a local Artist who claims to be madly in love with the creative spirit. He was involved with the Night and Day Studios, then a director for Beaux Arts Brampton, and now has found his footing in both Vortex paintings, street Art, and scripting thoughts precariously around the city and social media. We will take a deep dive into how this came about shortly.

But first lets  go underneath the fabric of his creativity to find what got him here in the first place. Join me as we discuss his inspirations, insights, and innovations that keep him on this path. James Flux is a Brampton Artist that cultivates his creativity within, and with this I mean within the human natures of those he surrounds himself with. This definetly needs unravelling.

You can enjoy more of James Flux artwork on his Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jamesfluxartist/

Podcast Interview Credits
Sound Effects from Pixby
Audio Links from https://freemusicarchive.org/
Podcast by Carolyn Botelho

Transcript

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Creatively Thinking Podcast. Join Carolyn Botelho as she uncovers the inspirations behind some incredibly creative minds that are orbiting our local communities. Hello everyone, welcome back to the Creatively Thinking Podcast. 
 
 Today we have a guest with us, James Flux, who is madly in love with the creative spirit. He is a multidisciplinary artist focusing on vibration, human experience, and transcendental realities. How are you, James? It's been quite a while since we've chatted, so yeah, it's been a long time since we've spoken to each other. 
 
 Yeah, so I see you're doing quite well, so let's just take a deep dive into how you became a creative professional. What exactly led you down this path? Was it working with your hands, expressing yourself visually, or your emotional intuitions that guided you? So when I first started into art, we're going back to about 2010, I was reading an article online about Art therapy, and it didn't really give much of like a how-to, what to do about that. So what I did is I went to the dollar store and I bought some canvas and some paint, and I just decided to kind of jump in, seeing what it would be like to put my emotions on canvas, because I was dealing with like a lot of anxiety and a lot of depression at the time, and I was looking for anything that would kind of help me move past that. 
 
 And to my surprise, I fell madly in love with the idea of painting abstract with my hands. It was very therapeutic, it was very like expressive, and it was actually getting my anxiety out. And then I tend to get really obsessed when I get into things, and you know, I started going to a lot of events, a lot of shows, and then I eventually started running my own events and working within the arts. 
 
 Yeah. Okay, so yeah, we first met at Night and Day Studios, I believe, or was it earlier than that? I'm not sure. Night and Day and Beaux-Arts Brampton, two Brampton artist-run collectives, appears to be where you found your stride as an Artist.
 
 Can you expand on how these Artists' collectives helped in giving you the knowledge and or confidence to continue down this path? Yeah, so those were the two places that I started to really put my energy into the establishment. So it was probably 2013, 2014, in that time frame that I found Night and Day. And what it was, is there was two guys, Kevin Hunt and Jeremy Lee, and they were in the process of building an art, like an art establishment. 
 
 And they didn't really know kind of what that looked like, they just kind of had this weird calling. And at the time, I was gathering a lot of creatives at my house for just like no creative session, but have the writers and the musicians and the painters. I just found that Brampton kind of had, you know, this collective of very, you know, skilled creatives that there was nowhere for us to go.
 
 And that's kind of what I was looking for. And then I got turned on to Night and Day Studios, what was being created at the time. And in the front was a gallery. 
 
 And in the back, they had built this kind of like jungle gym. And there was like little studio spaces everywhere. I kind of looked at them. 
 
 And I said, Hey, I don't really have a background in this. But for years, I've, you know, thrown a lot of parties, I'm really good at bringing people into a room, could I try to, you know, take this, this gathering skill that I have and apply it to the art in your establishment. And yeah, pretty much overnight, I became their event coordinator and the curator.
 
 Mm hmm. Yeah, it sounded like you you had a little bit of experience by that time, because you said you started in the early 2000s. And by the time you got to Night and Day was 2013.
 
 So you so you Yeah, you gathered some experience? Well, and you to use it there, right? I didn't have experience with curating or event coordinating. I had experience with throwing parties. So I could gather, you know, like, yeah, 100 plus people in a room.
 
 Which to me, just that seems like the only difference between a like a throwing a party and event coordination was putting art on the walls. Yeah, it sounds very similar. And that's what I was doing at my apartment when I gather people is I would, you know, have my art. 
 
 It was at my apartment. So I would have my art on the walls, people would have conversations about it. So by the time I found Night and Day, I was like, well, you know, intuitively, this seems like it's like, like, it's a skill set that I do possess.
 
 Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like you were you were on your way to that. Yeah, what what Night and Day really gave me was the confidence to do it. 
 
 I got to apply that and see it work. Yeah, and see where you could take it for how you could take it further. Exactly, exactly. 
 
 Unfortunately, there is some issues with the back end of Night and Day. I won't go into it. Yeah, no, we don't want to hear the bad news of it. 
 
 But I got to. All good talk here. I got to a point where I found it was somewhere that I couldn't really expand any further.
 
 So I went over to Beaux Arts, which was another Artist run establishment that I think at the time they were 12 years old. I think we met somewhere in the middle of this. Yeah. 
 
 Yeah, I don't remember exactly. And then that would be 2014. So I joined the marketing team. 
 
 And then within a few months, I, they made me head of Marketing at one point. But then I became Vice President because there was a new election. And then it was about, say, a year or two of being there that I threw an event because I kept throwing events and they'd get a little more serious and a little more professional. 
 
 And it was one of my events that three individuals that like don't didn't know each other came up to me at different points and said, you know, you're not supposed to be the Vice President, you're supposed to be the Executive Director. And to be honest, I didn't even completely understand that term. I had to do a lot of googling. 
 
 And then I realized that I was kind of indirectly acting as that person in a lot of ways. So I pitched it to the board, and they signed off on it. And then I became the Executive Director. Yeah, it's interesting how different different, we become aware of different things at different points in our lives. Right now. Yes, for sure. 
 
 So where and when did you see the opportunity to take the written word as another medium to explore as an Artist? Was it in connection with any of your previous artworks? Or was it influenced by your Night and Day Studios connection? And for people that aren't familiar, well, we actually just spoke about Night and Day, but at Night and Day Studios is the Artist Run Gallery studio space and creative environment located at 18 Strathern Avenue, unit 12 C, North Brampton. And yeah, I was just gonna say, would you like to describe it any further? But I guess we kind of we kind of did that. So unless you wanted to add to that. 
 
 Yeah. Yeah, I think we covered it. No, but what I'll say is that, like, I'm as a creative, I do a lot of different things. 
 
 So when I first started, I was doing abstract with my hands. And that kind of continued. I now do large scale versions of that.
 
 They kind of look like big portals, or I call them vortexes, still with my hands. I do a lot of Photography, I'm still doing event coordination. But what you're talking about is the writing, the street art that I started doing.
 
 I'm involved in a few different street art projects. A lot of them are a little quieter, like doesn't have my face on it type thing. But one of the ones that have really gotten popular is I'll write out my random thoughts on a normal white piece of paper with a black marker. 
 
 It's very, very simple. And then I'll sign it J Flux. And I want to say about two, two and a half years ago, I created an Instagram account. 
 
 And if you go through my sketchbooks, there's there's writing here and there. And it's all like, kind of motivational, maybe a sentence or two, maybe a paragraph, less poetry, less structured, and more, I think what I was told is called is like prose or prose, where it's kind of just free flow. And that's always been there. 
 
 But I haven't really considered myself a poet, because to me, that structure, to me, that's you, you have to know what you're doing, whereas I was just rambling. I think you're thinking of stream of consciousness. Yeah. 
 
 Yeah, something like this. So it's, I think it's p r o s e. Oh, pros. Yeah. 
 
 Oh, yeah. So when I was like, way before I started any of this art stuff, when I was like, my early 20s, it wasn't uncommon for me to like, maybe write some of my thoughts. I don't know in a bathroom stall or somewhere that or at a bus stop or like somewhere that I thought, by chance encounter, someone might see these words right when they need them. 
 
 And it was just like a little quirk that I had. I don't know, I thought it was interesting that there was a possibility there. And when I got into the street art, I was doing the poetry at the time and online on Instagram.
 
 And what I did when I started is I didn't want anyone to know that it was me who was who was writing I wanted. You wanted to be anonymous. Exactly, exactly. 
 
 I didn't want I wanted people were going to judge it. I didn't want it to be my friends and family. I wanted to know if it was actually good. 
 
 So I created this account, and I called it plum words, because I like that they were, you know, little small, sweet sentiments. And then to me, I have this thing where I love the idea of red and blue becoming purple. There's that's my duality. 
 
 There's just something about it. So the colour plum as well. And then I knew it was further away from anything I was doing that no one in the algorithm would pick up on it. 
 
 And I didn't tell anyone for at least four months, not even my closest friends knew I was doing this. And I wouldn't interact with them because I knew that the way the algorithm works is that if I work, if I like liked it, or if one of my friends liked it, it starts showing it to other people. So for about four or five, six months, I didn't tell a soul. 
 
 And to my surprise, it started to get a bit of a following. And I was reaching a lot of people. So I kind of after the six month mark, I changed it from plum words, to J Flux Word.
 
 And then within about six months after that, I started putting the words in the streets. So again, that white paper, black marker, and then I wheat paste it, which is making kind of like a glue, and then putting it at like, say a gray box at the lights or various places in the streets. And now people have done this in Montreal, I've done this in New York, I've had a few people put it up in other places in the world for me. 
 
 But now I get people messaging me kind of saying, like, I was walking by this, and I really needed to hear it at the time. And, you know, kind of become a little bigger than me. And it's really cool.
 
 Yeah, it's kind of like your gift to the community. So as a creative professional, do you see your practice as having method and metaphor, or more fluidity and connection with the human spirit? Could you expand on how ultimately, you make that connection? Is it through the medium, the subject or the execution of the work where you establish this? I guess for me, it depends on the project. And it's kind of a middle. 
 
 I mean, I changed my last name to Flux. Probably somewhere in the middle between Night and Day. And Beaux Arts, it's not my legal name. 
 
 But I was looking for a very particular word, I wanted to find something that meant two forces becoming one. But I couldn't find that in the English language. But I was like, really trying to find something in the language. 
 
 And I found flux. And to me, that meant kind of one that wouldn't flow of life. And that was what I was doing with my paintings, is it was all abstract, it was all flow state.
 
 As an Abstract Artist, I'm sure you know, like that intuitive pull, you get to go into different directions. Sometimes you don't even know where you're being taken. But like with my photography, every photo that I've ever taken is in a flow state, but it's with very concrete parameters. 
 
 So me and a model will talk for sometimes three weeks, sometimes six weeks. I'll send them a bunch of reference photos, they'll pick ones that they're both comfortable being in, and they like it. So they'll kind of circle it. 
 
 And that will give me kind of an area of like, where they're going to be most comfortable and excited to create. And also, I'm going to be most excited. And then I'll kind of have a few ideas, I'll, you know, bring it up with them. 
 
 Because a lot of the photography I'm doing with models, there's a lot of nudity. So it's again, comfort there, like, where are you comfortable? Mm hmm. Yeah, you establish that with the photos.
 
 Exactly, exactly. And then, you know, maybe I want to work with like light, or say glow sticks, like just a random example, or I do a lot of body painting. So like black light body painting.
 
 And then we've, we've discussed every single boundary between the two of us. And then when we get into the creative act, quite often, the photos are completely unplanned. Like, for example, there was a guy that I worked with, and we came in with the idea of doing kind of like a male burlesque photo shoot. 
 
 And tomorrow was like, it was a portfolio type thing. And it was something he was interested in. And when we got into the photo shoot, it was in his apartment. 
 
 And immediately, I loved the way the light was coming through the blinds. And I think we spent like an hour just playing with the light. And some of my favorite photos from that photo shoot, and it really had nothing to do with our conversations. 
 
 But I did know his boundaries, and I knew where he was comfortable. And then it was Yeah, it was flow state. And then the words, the words are very, so for the first six months to a year, I would pick up my phone, I would write what I was thinking before bed, and then I would post it and I go to sleep. 
 
 There was no editing, there was no anything like it was just flow. Well, that's the best time is just before bed to just get all that out. And then nowadays, with the word that go in the street, a majority of it is, okay, I'm going to go at Wednesday night, so Tuesday night, or maybe even Wednesday during the day, I'll just pull up some paper, and I'll write out what I'm thinking.
 
 So there's answer your question, there's parameters within the flow state occurs. Everything that I'm doing is a flow state, but coming with this real structure, like your own parameters, you said sounds like? Yeah, I mean, like, for me, I've always been obsessed with duality. And I like, in a metaphor, I like the concept of what we call the, the mosh pit, like at a rock concert, because people see that and they think, oh, that's just pure, pure chaos. 
 
 But that's at a show that someone had the venue, and they had the book, the Musicians, and they had to collect ticket sales. And like, there's so much organization that has to happen to create that one chaotic moment. And, and it's energy. 
 
 All those people that collide and yeah, make that I see what you mean. So when you describe your practice at what as one that explores human connections, nature and transcendental realities, were you implying your connection to the medium, and how you explore it through your art? Or were you referring or referencing a deeper awareness of the human psyche that you have found with your creativity while making art? I think when I wrote that, I was talking about some of the more Visionary Art work that I do. So when I'm not painting with my hands, I'm painting, again, it's a flow state. 
 
 So I'm not thinking and a lot of like, space comes out a lot of rhythm, a lot of nature, but then that is easily seen in my Photography. And then, you know, a lot of my writing explores, you know, human connection. And then, even the, the, what's it called the, the Vortex Painting, to me, I see, it's all ripple and waves. 
 
 So article and waves, there's, you can see it in the way that I kind of paint that there's little, you know, dot, dot, dot, and then I'll like kind of pull them. And that, to me is, you know, the human experience, there's individuals everywhere. And we move in waves as far as like, maybe technological revolutions, or maybe something happens in the news, like we are all connected in this way.
 
 And I think, yeah, they all kind of touch on these same concepts. That's something else that gets in my writing and my Photography and my painting is nature, because I, I don't think we can truly separate ourselves from nature. I think these patterns emerge because we are nature.
 
 And we'll be right back. Can you explain to me how you made the transition from paint to working with words, or do you complete these simultaneously? And if so, do they influence each other? Do you have some that you connect in exhibitions? Or do they function entirely separate? So me, for me, they're all separate. And it took me a while to get me there. 
 
 For years, I was trying to figure out, okay, am I this? Am I that? Do I put them all under one name? You're trying to categorize yourself sounds like? Yeah. And it was really difficult. I mean, I think it's weird for us as creatives, because I think there is an impulse to do a lot of different things. 
 
 Then we're told, you're supposed to just get this one thing, it's got to be your style, and you push it as hard as you can. Yeah. I actually find in this generation is less, less pushed, less, less the narrative, because you've got this just content creator, and they create like everything. 
 
 But the problem is, I was explaining this to a friend who was dealing with a lot of imposter syndrome is, we just see the final product, we see the YouTube video, we see the Instagram post. Yeah. In a lot of situations, we don't know about the business partner, we don't know about the Manager, we don't know about the Assistant, like the amount of people in the background that are doing things. 
 
 Yeah, all the work for them to be able to do. Yeah, all the work that goes into it. Yeah. 
 
 Yeah. And nowadays, it used to be like, you know, you painted your paintings, and then you got a Manager, and then they covered most of that. Now, it's, you have social media, and you have to do Marketing, and you have to do sales, and you have to do kind of everything, you have to wear every hat.
 
 Yeah, it would just allow Artists don't, by and large, it's not their strong suit to put on that business hat. And that created? No. Yeah.
 
 So the words, ironically, came first, then were put on a, you know, just stayed in the shadows for as long as until recently. And they only kind of came out when I was succeeding at a few of my other projects in the Street Art community. And I don't know, I just became more comfortable with the idea with putting them out there. 
 
 I think there has been pieces where I see them overlap. I was talking to a friend about this, because her work is, it looks like an amalgamation of all my work. And she said, I kind of see you going in that direction.
 
 I said, I can see it. But, but what happened during the pandemic is I made an Instagram account for every single project. And I started, I gave them names, and I treated them like their own independent projects.
 
 And now, I think there's like, I probably have like eight Instagram accounts that I'm running on a regular basis. And they have posting schedules, and they have goals. And they've become all like my individual children. 
 
 And sometimes they'll overlap and maybe I'll credit it to different projects. But I found that I would ruminate and I would get stuck in my head trying to figure out what I was supposed to be. And once I gave them all their own space, names, exactly, space, to be their independent children with their own voices, then they started to succeed. 
 
 That's a great idea. It helps to declutter the mind. And then all of a sudden, you're less the whole driver's seat, you're more like an employee to this creative urge.
 
 Less overwhelmed, it sounds like, too, with all of those projects and thoughts that are, you know, that overwhelm us Artists. Well, what overwhelms me is when I feel like, oh, crap, like, I'm not where I want to be with any of these. But every time I sit down with just one of them, then it gets so clear where to go next.
 
 You get more focused by just focusing on that one individually. Yeah. And then if one is having a bad day, one of the other ones will be doing better.
 
 Because I mean, we all get to points in our creative activity where like, it's always going to be ups and downs. You might have like an amazing month or three months or six months, and then all of a sudden, nothing for like, the rest of the year. So that's also helped me to have so many different things that are going in different directions. 
 
 One of them is always doing good. So it gives me a lot of like looking at the more positive side of life. How did you discover the art of Visionary Art? Was it something you stumbled upon when you focused your practice more on the human connection and transcendental realities? Was it a spiritual reflection you had? Or was it psychedelics that tripped you into this new way of seeing your creative practice? Kind of somewhere in the middle of those. 
 
 I mean, when I got into art. So 2010 is when I start painting. By 2011, I was, and in the following years, I was obsessively watching like, any documentary I could find to figure out, okay, James, you're, you're going to be an artist. 
 
 And this is where we are in art history. And this is where we came from. I did the same thing.
 
 I got really into Music a couple of years prior. And I ended up finding, okay, so blues starts, you know, I think it's the 1920s or 19. I think the earliest is like 1913. 
 
 And then you can see where that those original blues tracks went to. And when they eventually become rock and roll, and when rock and roll eventually becomes like, say, like funk music, or ska music, and you can see it, you can trace it up to modern times. So I did the same thing with Art.
 
 I said, Okay, so, you know, let's go back as far as the Renaissance. I got really honed in on the last 100 years. And just trying to figure out, you know, once, once the camera became a thing, what, how did we evolve? Where did we go? And what's happening? And the reason I stumbled into Street Art so heavily is because it seemed like the most Modern Art there was.
 
 It was by far the biggest Art movement that had taken place. It was all over the world. It bypassed the gallery.
 
 There's just something there. But then, Visionary Art, to me seemed like maybe the furthest we were with on canvas, we were just sticking on the canvas. And I mean, you can go in a lot of different directions. 
 
 But for those who don't know, so Surrealism was trying to tap into dreams and the unconscious and a lot of stuff that like Freud and Jung were touching on. I think and that would happen at the same time. And what Visionary Art does is it tries to take it a step further. 
 
 And it goes to the collective unconscious, it goes to the places where people go in deep yoga states or meditation or psychedelics. And because when you're in these states, you can't bring a camera. And the goal of the Visionary Artists just to have these transcendental experiences, and then bring them back using the medium of art. 
 
 Surprisingly, or not surprisingly, people in this movement, because it's a global movement, are bringing back similar things. They're having similar trips. That's unusual.
 
 Isn't it though? Like, it's interesting. Yeah, like, how is that, you know? But then I guess you could say the same things like way back when Post-Impressionism was happening, because that was also sort of global, too. And it's like, how is it that these things happen where people become aware of different states or different ways of expressing themselves globally, but at the same way? Like, it just seems so strange.
 
 You know, even if you go back to like, you know, different things we did on pots and things, it's like geometric patterns seem to come up everywhere. Yeah. I don't know.
 
 The universal, what is it subconscious, right? How we just all have that same way of thinking, I guess. Well, that's, yeah, I believe that's what Carl Jung was calling it the collective unconscious. It was like, this... Collective unconscious, that's it.
 
 Freud would say that, you know, we have our unconscious, we have things about ourselves that we don't even know, are like buried. And then the collective unconscious was the concept that we have a place that's just universal that we all tap into. Which is very, very possible, a lot of things could be explained by it. 
 
 And I mean, the example that he gives, Carl Jung uses to describe that, that I really like is, he talks about the archetypes, and how you could take a civilization anywhere, like on the planet, it doesn't matter if they're isolated away from society, on an island, or, you know, in Manhattan, you're going to have archetypes of humans that come up, you're going to have people who want to be like a hero, they want to help people, you're going to have overbearing mothers that kind of don't want to let their kids go and explore, there's like, there's parts of being a human that just by going through the nurture versus nature are going to emerge just by the nature of the animal that we are. So yeah, to me, to me, Visionary Art, because I do have a history of doing large doses of psychedelics. I've done yoga, meditated and stuff. 
 
 For me, I think I'd probably consider myself more of a Psychonaut, which is the term that you use for someone who wants to play with different levels of consciousness. For me, I just want to experience as much as you can on this planet. So there's definitely things that I've experienced, states that have made their way in there into my paintings.
 
 And I mean, I've always been a Philosopher, quite obsessively just exploring and thinking about life, because it's this crazy experience that we're all, even right now, I'm thinking I'm looking around my room and realizing that every single thing in this apartment, at some point, was in someone's mind, like there's a pillow over there, or there's a marker that I'm holding. And this was, someone came up with it, did sketches, brought the materials together and created this thing that we use. It's quite overwhelming in the best possible way that we're these beautiful, Creative Creators that can't help it.
 
 So I mean, I'm always thinking about our motives, our urges, why we do these things. Visionary Art kind of accidentally came out of me, because of the things that I was in exploring the literature that I was into my studies with figuring out where we were as a society as far as Art History went. And to me, again, it was, it felt like one of the final frontiers of paintings that still had, had some stuff to tell us that hadn't been completely explored yet. 
 
 Yeah. Yeah. Do you see this? So this is a little off of what you're talking about.
 
 But do you see Art School as a restrictive way of learning to be creative? Or do you see it has some merits on teaching certain techniques and rules that are ultimately broken by Artists for them to find their own unique style? When I got back into art, so when I went to high school, I took art in grade nine, grade 10. A few classes in grade 11 and grade 12. But I didn't really take it serious. 
 
 I remember a teacher telling me that, you know, like, you have great promise if you cared. And I mean, I think by grade 11, I was skipping an absurd amount. There was one class I skipped for three months in a row.
 
 Whoa. Well, I just, I learned at a very young age that if I didn't care, I could get a C. And if I really, really, really tried, I could get like a B and B plus. I have a diagnosed learning disability.
 
 I've later found since going back to College and University that I just deal with a lot of anxiety, ADHD. And yeah, I got diagnosed with borderline much later in life. And I'm just, I don't deal with stress very well.
 
 Me either. It's tough. I think it's pretty common for, especially creatives.
 
 Yeah, it is tough. Yeah. But I'm the type of person that it takes a lot to get the information in my head.
 
 I need to look at it from a lot of different angles. But once it's in there, I'm a great teacher. I mean, absolutely. 
 
 I'm great at metaphors. I'm great at asking the right questions. And I took a learning assessment right before I went to university. 
 
 And he basically told me that in the later years, I think you're going to do great. I was going to go for Psychology. And he said, because they'll ask you questions, and you'll have to explain it in your own words. 
 
 And you're great at that. You're great at coming up with a lot like your own opinions and things like that. He said, but the first two years is all going to be memorization and spitting it back. 
 
 He said, that's kind of where you fall short. So to get back on track with your question, I went to Seneca for Art Fundamentals for half a semester. And then I dropped out. 
 
 And then I went to York for Psychology. And I dropped out. The reason I dropped out of Seneca was because I found that anything they were teaching me, I could learn on YouTube. 
 
 And the reason I went is because I was now an obsessed Artist wanting to be, you know, and I wanted all my skills up there. But again, it they weren't teaching me anything I could learn on my own. I think school nowadays offers you the discipline. 
 
 But I got obsessed with this question, actually. And I didn't know if it was good for me or not good for me. When I would do my research about what it took to be, you know, an artist, it seemed to me in the books and the magazines and the things that I read that in our day and age, nine out of 10 people who make it in the art world have a master's degree.
 
 Yeah. And I had a few colleagues urged me to go back to school to get my Master's because it would get me where I wanted to be. However, I will one I'm not designed for it, but to and I couldn't make sense of it. 
 
 But there was that 10% that seemed to do just fine. And I think I tend to be in that 10%. Because I think the Art world is networking, it's marketing, it's getting yourself out there.
 
 And I think the Master's degree offers you automatic respect in these places. But if you're getting the respect and attention from other places, I think you don't need it per se. Yeah. 
 
 I mean, nowadays, you can learn online, you couldn't do that. In the past, you needed Art Schools, you need to go to the master's. Now, masters are just putting up free content online.
 
 And Masters are just it's just a ton of writing. It's not really worth it. I mean, I never took it. 
 
 Because I realized that that's all it was, was I just have to write essays and essays and essays. And I'm like, I don't want to do that. I don't need I don't need that piece of paper. 
 
 You know, I mean, I thought the same as you that it's like, do I really really need that? No, probably not. So I missed it this year. But the last four or five years prior, I would go to the the OCAD graduate graduation thing. 
 
 And I would ask people like, was it worth it? You've just you've just done this. Do you think the last four plus years were worth the money you spent? And what they say? By and large, it was this kind of like, did it improve? Like, are they a better Artist because of it? Kind of, because they have those deadlines, they had the community, they liked the experience. But they weren't, there was no one confident and this was going to make me the Artist that I want to be. 
 
 This wasn't going to get me the gallery shows. And it's my of my opinion that every art degree that you get nowadays should be half business and half art. And that's, that's where you're missing.
 
 Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 
 
 Yeah, I went to OCAD and there was zero business. Exactly. Zero, which is crazy. 
 
 It's especially nowadays when you're expected to do all these things. And we'll be right back. Yeah, yeah, I mean, like, they, they taught us. 
 
 I think there was one class. Yeah, like on like, there's a couple computer classes like for Photoshop and, and like Typography and stuff. But what is that going to get you? That's not business. 
 
 You know, it's Yeah, yeah, they definitely need a lot more business in the art curriculum for sure. Yeah. So what would you say is your truly Zen moment as a creative professional? Is it in the act of composition, while using your medium, the exhibition, a metaphysical connection with the work or another moment in the process? Would you say it is different when working with words, opposed to working with paint? I think it's the this is the flow state for all of these things. 
 
 And it's how much I can be in that flow state. The words and the large scale paintings right now are less than the other places because with the large scale paintings right now, I actually have to put down a layer, which can take me maybe a few minutes, and then I have to wait for it to dry for like six hours. Yeah. 
 
 They're like 20 layers on top of each other. So that's, it's still a flow state, but it's not as interesting anymore. And then the words similar. 
 
 I find photography very engaging these days, because it's again, you've just put in so much work for that moment. Yeah, in one instance, yeah. And then it's nothing but flow, a little bit of communication in between the shoots, the different scenes or whatever we're doing. 
 
 And then some of my projects that are kind of less and less public about all the use, we paste and stickers and spray paints, and looking to do more like free flow murals and stuff. I find that more engaging right now. The thing about Street Art, which is this extra little thing on the flow state, is the adrenaline rush. 
 
 There's no other way to say it, you're essentially breaking the law. Like there's, it's a gray area, it really is a gray area. Well, stickers and wheat paste the gray area is that it's technically biodegradable. Yeah, it's very gray. Yeah. Yeah. 
 
 So you're not really harming the environment or anything. Well, once you put a spray can, that's damaging property. So and it's, it's weird, because in London, because of Banksy, what's taken place is that if it's a graffiti tag, then they get rid of it.
 
 But if it's Street Art, they have to keep it up. Because what they did with Banksy is they accidentally removed one of his pieces, and it was later signaled that it was worth over $200,000. So now this task force in London that gets rid of like graffiti is not allowed to get rid of Street Art.
 
 And if you can't tell the difference, you have to call your superior. Which is amazing. That's hilarious. 
 
 Now we're not there in Toronto yet. However, I've had some weird experiences. So one of the projects that's doing the best, it's more of a character. 
 
 And there's a bridge on Bathurst that I put some of the characters up. And this bridge was covered, absolutely covered in graffiti. Well, we're in Toronto, it isn't covered in graffiti.
 
 Yeah, they're pretty good at getting rid of it. But what happened was, a couple months later, I drove by there. And there was one very well done graffiti letter, that lettering that had stayed up, where they're using multiple colors, multiple cans, you can see someone that has done this. 
 
 And my piece. Well, and then my piece, and they other than that, they got rid of everything on that bridge. So I don't know if they're starting to change the way they handle things. 
 
 Because that was very bizarre. The fact that they left our work up. They got rid of so much.
 
 They must have seen everything else is just tags. Right? Yeah, that's a possibility. So and I dealt with that more than once I dealt with that in Brampton, where I would put something up under a bridge and come back and everyone else's was gone but mine.
 
 I don't know if that's the city. I don't know if that's the person who is in charge of getting rid of it. That's bizarre.
 
 Yeah. But yeah, like, but it but it's very interesting when you're doing to get back to what we were talking about the flow state and stuff is if if they catch me in the act, if it's wheat paste, they usually it's just a slap on the wrist, and they tell you to keep walking. spray paint, they would have to give me a fine.
 
 And but both of those are not comfortable situations to be in. No, you don't want to be doing something in public with, you know, the consequences. No, your your heart is racing, or technically could get in trouble.
 
 And then it's a flow state. It's a thrill. It's you just, it's exactly and then the second you stop and walk away, your body gets flooded with endorphins.
 
 Yeah, I could see that too. Yeah. I can I understand why people get addicted to it. 
 
 And then well, on top of that, you're bypassing the art galleries, you're getting direct feedback from people who you never would like, there are some days that I like last week, on one of my accounts, I got tagged five times in one day, in Montreal, in New York, in Toronto, you in Ottawa, people that I'll never meet, just walking by my work, and feeling the urge, not only not only were they affected by it, they took out their camera, they took a picture, they found me online, and then tagged me. So if that's five people in one day, how many other people didn't actually take the time to pull up their camera or didn't take the time to find me? Like, bare minimum conservative estimate, we could say that that work affected like 25 people. And a lot in a lot of places, this is work I've put up six months ago.
 
 Sometimes, there's some pieces in New York, because I haven't been there in about a year, but I'm still getting tagged in. So that means every single day, someone walks by that and gets to experience the art. Yeah, because I was wondering, how are you getting the feedback? So there's a real attraction to that.
 
 But that's exactly it. They're seeing it. And then they're, they're just they're finding you from what they're what they're seeing. 
 
 I didn't even think of that. That is amazing. Yeah, I had an experience. 
 
 Maybe two weeks ago, I was, I met my partner's brother, and his girlfriend and a friend. And it came up, there's a project that I've been doing for a few years now. And I did it in Brampton, a street art project. 
 
 And he found organically, we started talking about the work. And the friend, he, when he found out what I was doing, his eyes lit up, he said, Oh, my God, I've been seeing your work for years. I'm actually getting a tattoo based on your work. 
 
 And he pulls out his phone, and he shows me a picture that he drew based on the character, and said, I've been seeing you for years, I've always wanted to know what it means. It's taken on a life where it means so much to me, I can't believe I'm meeting you. And it's, it's that type of stuff that I really feed off of nowadays.
 
 And that's got to feel really good that that people just they just it's like you're famous, right? And then, and then, you know, they reach out in there. And they're just in awe of you, that's got to feel really good. What's nice to know that the work is, is actually having an effect on people. 
 
 Yeah, succeeding. Do you see your visionary art, vortex art, and J flux words merging into another creative form that you that your practice will explore in the future? Or do you see them as completely different elements of your creativity that can never be combined or rearranged into something new? Yeah, succeeding? We kind of did. Yeah. 
 
 And I mean, we'll, we'll see. We'll see. I mean, with my photography, what I've been doing is, I've been printing it, and then also putting it in the streets.
 
 So I had a model that I had body painted, and she kind of looked like space. And then what I did, it was a portrait. And then I put it in Photoshop, found a frame online, and then I made it so that she kind of looked like she was popping out of this frame. 
 
 And then I put that on the streets. And it kind of has more of an interactive quality, just because of the three dimensional qualities that I added to it. And then what I did, I got a gray canvas, I painted it gray, to mimic, like a gray box in the streets. 
 
 And then I put words on it, I put stickers on it, I wrote tags on it. And then I plopped the picture frame right in the middle. So it was kind of taking from some parts, and it was kind of more my photography, but it was definitely stickers from other projects. 
 
 So when you say in the middle, do you mean in the middle of the box and the middle of the outside of the box? Well, this was a canvas. Oh, okay. I thought you were saying, okay.
 
 Well, no, what it was doing was it was mimicking the streets. Oh, I see. Okay.
 
 So there has been a few ways that things have kind of overlapped. And I think I'm just gonna have to keep pushing each of them. And then if they get closer, and they want to play together, allow it. 
 
 But just let it all flow. Yeah, explore and see how they fuse together or separate. Okay, so if you were to identify a famous artist as having some influence over your practice, who would it be? And what exactly did you take from their practice to incorporate it into your own? Or do you see your style as completely your own visual representation of your connections with the human spirit? I'm definitely someone that gets very influenced by what's around. 
 
 But the way I kind of see it is kind of like, so like, you take a funk guitarist, and he's really good at, you know, doing funk guitar, and doing it in a certain rhythm with certain shapes and certain chords. And then figuring out why that worked. So was it because he hit it three times down or four times up and then figuring out the patterns and the shapes and all that stuff, but then taking the same patterns and maybe do using different shapes, or different rhythms or so a lot of my work comes from a basis of a feeling more than anything. 
 
 A lot of my photography, like I said, when I start, I send the models a lot of reference. So things I've seen on Instagram, and it might be that I just really liked the way that they used a red light. And rather than trying to mimic the photo, I just want to play with a red light.
 
 And see what happens. As far as my words go, I think I have, I owe most, if not everything to Jean-Michel Basquiat. So when he was doing street art, and he widely is recognized as being one of the first people to dive into street art. 
 
 He was writing just random words with a spray can in the streets of Manhattan. And in signing it Samo, S-A-M-O, and then he would put a copyright sign at the end. And I don't think I would have written in the streets if it weren't for seeing that in documentaries. 
 
 It just directly, I said this in another interview that I don't see myself as a poet as much as I see myself as a visual artist that uses words. I mean, you can put four words on a blank piece of paper, and that immediately invokes a feeling or puts people at different places. It's like, I always liked the idea of the Beatles, because there's this thing that I read where they said the thing with the Beatles is that you could have the dumbest person in the room and the smartest person in the room, and they would still connect to the lyrics.
 
 Mm-hmm. I like very open-ended things. I like anything that I can do with a pen or a marker or any sort of tool, and the fastest I can do it to make an emotion in you, then that's magic.
 
 So words just transcend a lot of it. Well, essentially words are pictograms, right? Exactly. Exactly.
 
 It's just we see them as words. But they were originally pictures, yeah. And they communicate.
 
 Yeah, exactly. They communicate more than just the words. Yeah, exactly.
 
 And then, I mean, I'm obsessed over music, and I obsess over visual arts. So what Alex Gray is currently doing in New York with the visionary art community, I think, is extremely important. Okay. 
 
 And who's Alex Gray? Alex Gray would be considered the main person in the visionary art movement. He's most known for, do you know the band Tool? Yep. So he does all the artwork for Tool.
 
 Oh, wow. Okay. And he has property with his wife in New York, and they've just built an art temple that is designed to last thousands of years.
 
 It just opened constructually, it will be there for at least the next two, 3000 years, housing some of his most important pieces and his wife's most important pieces and other artists from around the world. And he has gotten the property to have basically religious exemption. It's become a sacred spot for a lot of people. 
 
 And there's a board of directors, and like, this space will live on. And what he's done, I don't think anyone's ever done that. Like, it's a pretty surefire way to make sure that your art lives on.
 
 Well, the Egyptians, they did the tombs and all that stuff, right? And that's thousands of years, right? Yeah. Well, already, so. For sure, for sure.
 
 But yeah, that's definitely a current way of doing it. Yeah. And then, I mean, sorry, go.
 
 Oh, I was just saying that does sound awesome to just, a way to make your work live forever. It's just, yeah. Yeah. 
 
 If you wanted to look into it more, any of the viewers, what he just created is called Pantheon. That's what the temple place is called. And then the famous work that he has on display there is called Chapel of Sacred Mirrors. 
 
 Google that. Okay, I'll check it out. I'm obsessed with the different art movements that have taken place. 
 
 I mean, I find surrealism very interesting. I think what Andy Warhol did was very important. I was gonna say that, but I was like, no, Basquiat, you're exactly right.
 
 He's more directly connected to you than Warhol. Well, Warhol was like, I don't even know where to begin. Like, he just, he opened the doors for a lot of things. 
 
 He predicted a lot of the future. Yeah. He was way ahead of his time in what we've become. 
 
 I'm less interested in his work, and I'm more interested in his influence and how much stuff he did and how iconic he was. Yeah. That's a whole podcast in itself, right? That's what I was just thinking, yeah.
 
 So what do you think of the connection between spontaneous writing, like the ones that are central to your work, and graffiti? Do you see a connection? And if so, can you explain it? That seems a bit broad, but... No, no. Because you did kind of touch on it a bit, but... Yeah. And it's actually ironic, because usually what I've been doing is writing my thoughts on a piece of paper and then going out. 
 
 But about a week ago, I was out, and I actually just took a marker and drew on some gray boxes, so it was more immediate. The thing about graffiti that people don't, I think, understand is you learn your symbol, you learn the way you're going to write your F or your K, or you know what I mean? And you learn how to connect them. And it's all a flow state.
 
 It's like creating your own language while you're out there. And the more times you do a single symbol, the more comfortable you get with it, the more loose you get, the more experimental you get. And then it has what I was talking about, that rush. 
 
 The anxiety is going to happen while you're doing the piece, and the second you stop, put that can in your bag, you're fine. You walk away, you did it. And then that's where the adrenaline comes in, or the endorphins.
 
 Endorphins, yeah. I think graffiti and street art are brothers in the same household, maybe cousins. They definitely, there's a lot in common, there's a lot of rivalry. 
 
 I have people that hate projects I'm doing, and then I get people who love projects I'm doing. It just depends on who you are, I mean. And where you're at too, right? Well, 100%. 
 
 Well, I remember at night and day, I was talking to someone who was there, and he's a graffiti writer. And I said, when I'm walking down the street, and I see a blank wall, I think to myself, how can I, what can I add to this to make the experience better, to interact with people? Like, yeah, to me, I see a blank canvas on the street, what can I do with that? And he looked at me and he said, I don't think that way at all. He said, I like to mess things up. 
 
 He said, I want my name everywhere. He said, I don't care if it's a bank or a private business, or he said, I just want my name everywhere. And I thought there, that right there is the two spectrums. 
 
 And I mean, we all kind of dance somewhere in the middle of that. The people that like to just ruin and the people that want to add and enhance, right? Yeah, that's the two sides of the same coin, I guess. What do you think of the notion that has been said that the eyes are the windows of the soul? Do you see writing and words as having any correlation to this? And if so, how? Well, I love eyes. 
 
 I was always obsessed with eyes. I think they're definitely the windows to the soul. I make a lot of eye contact to a point where I know some people get off put by it.
 
 But it's just, there's, you can definitely see something in someone, you can tell when they're lying, you can tell when they're being authentic. Sorry, how was the question relating to the word? Oh, just that. Do you see writing and words as having any correlation to the eyes are the windows of the soul? Well, I think there's, no, I think there's something there. 
 
 I mean, two things that I've written more than once, just because of the impact they've had. Very simple. There's magic yet to come. 
 
 And don't forget how far you've come. They're just a sentence, but there's something about them that's very striking, and it grabs you. It can be applied to different places you are in your life. 
 
 It kind of reminds me of like, what's it called? This too shall pass. And there is something striking about them in the same way that eye contact strikes you because it just grabs you, unassumingly. It just kind of grabs you.
 
 Yeah, it kind of gets your attention and makes you look at where you are in your own life and how that, what is it, like four or five words can actually impact where you are and how you're feeling. And it just, yeah, makes you sort of just stand up and notice it for that moment, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah.
 
 So yeah, maybe we could do this again. I've set up with a couple other Artists, like three, four, six months down the line, see if they want to do another one, see if they're, you know, see what they think. Perfect.
 
 So yeah. So, all right. Awesome. 
 
 All right. Thanks so much. It was great talking to you.
 
 Yeah. Great talking to you too, James. Enjoy the rest of yours.
 
 Yes. All right. Take care.
 
 Bye. Okay. Bye.
 
 Bye. Join me next time as I go down another rabbit hole with another creative professional on their insights, their inspirations, and their ingenuity.